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[grc]

I know there have been several references to the change made by H-D to the left side crankshaft bearing made back in 2003, from the bullet proof tapered Timken roller bearing to the plain straight roller bearing.  There are several folks, including Zippers, that offer a service where they machine your cases to accept the old tapered Timkens.  If you're planning to split your cases anyway, this is probably the way to go.  However, there is now an alternative for those who do not want to split the cases.  A company called GP Designs has invented an add-on bearing and support that is installed within the primary chain case, only requiring the removal of the outer primary cover and the primary chain/clutch shell/engine sprocket.  The January issue of Hot Bike has an article detailing the installation for anyone interested.  Just thought I'd pass this along for those folks considering upgrading their bearings.

Jerry

[Grover]

The price of the bearing support is $399.00  They are notifying all Harley Dealers.  This product DOES NOT void warranty.  Extensive testing has been done with 160 +hp motors with no failures.  Sounds like this is pretty bullet proof.  I have attached article and pictures below...
Take Care, Grover

[Grover]

This is the bearing assembly...

[Grover]

Final Install...

[AUSSIE_FLSTFSE]

This device seems like a good idea but looks a bit flimsy to me, it might have a big bearing but the way it mounts to the cases seems like it would not do to much to help the problem. Anyone used one? are they really worth while? would this thing help with 110 - 120 HP from the 103?


 [smiley=drink.gif]

[grc]

This device seems like a good idea but looks a bit flimsy to me, it might have a big bearing but the way it mounts to the cases seems like it would not do to much to help the problem. Anyone used one? are they really worth while? would this thing help with 110 - 120 HP from the 103?


 [smiley=drink.gif]

Actually, the bearing support is two pieces.  The smaller piece is attached more substantially than you can see in the photo, uses a couple of engine case bolts plus the one you can see near the chain tensioner.  This setup is similar to the outboard bearings you see on some belt drive primaries.

Jerry

[hdhiwayman]

Is this bearing a major concern for a Stage 1 (100-105) hp motor?
IMHO if it is then someone at HD should be bent over a knee and SPANKED REPEATEDLY
I haven't even seen my new bike yet and I'm starting to regret even thinking about it.

[syclone]

Here's what I'm curious about reguarding the new Dynas. With the gearing change made in the primary, the comp.sprocket,beacuse of its size had to be moved outward..away from the motor.
The compensator is now inboard of the sprocket,,and a comparable change was made to the clutch basket. The primary chain sprocket on the basket had to be moved outboard to match and align with the new outboard sprocket. This puts lots more stress on the trans. output shaft bearing as well as the basket bearing as the applied load is further out on the shaft. That's why H-d is requiring a "free" bearing change at 15000 miles (you sign off and agree/acknowledge this at delivery).
So...what affect will this have on the left side roller crank bearing. The pinion load is now a couple of inches further out...has to be more axial stress than the 05 design..and will only make the affects of radial runout worse for those bikes on the high side of spec.
Makes sense to bring this to market on your lowest selling line ....so IF the sh*t hits the fan..the mess wont be too big.
One giant step sideways......? many steps back.

[spydglide]

Here's what I'm curious about reguarding the new Dynas. With the gearing change made in the primary, the comp.sprocket,beacuse of its size had to be moved outward..away from the motor.
The compensator is now inboard of the sprocket,,and a comparable change was made to the clutch basket. The primary chain sprocket on the basket had to be moved outboard to match and align with the new outboard sprocket. This puts lots more stress on the trans. output shaft bearing as well as the basket bearing as the applied load is further out on the shaft. That's why H-d is requiring a "free" bearing change at 15000 miles (you sign off and agree/acknowledge this at delivery).
So...what affect will this have on the left side roller crank bearing. The pinion load is now a couple of inches further out...has to be more axial stress than the 05 design..and will only make the affects of radial runout worse for those bikes on the high side of spec.
Makes sense to bring this to market on your lowest selling line ....so IF the sh*t hits the fan..the mess wont be too big.
One giant step sideways......? many steps back.

Is all this 'moving everything outward' due to the wider rear tire?  Seems that it would be necessary due to keeping everything lined up straight.    [smiley=nixweiss.gif] spyder

[Grover]

Is this bearing a major concern for a Stage 1 (100-105) hp motor?
IMHO if it is then someone at HD should be bent over a knee and SPANKED REPEATEDLY
I haven't even seen my new bike yet and I'm starting to regret even thinking about it.

 The bearing failure happened to me twice!! Check out the Twin cam section pg. 2 under 103 Blown Motor. Also look in the Custom Vehicle Discussions (SERK). "droc" has a post under oil pump failure, he had the same issue I had. I have only heard of this happening to a few other people, but who knows how many are out there.
  A buddy of mine is waiting delivery of his '06 CUSE and he is having the Bearing support installed before it leaves the dealership.

  I spoke to Ron of  RC Cycles and George from GP Designs. They both assured me that this is pretty much bullet proof. Ron and his team have done extensive testing w/ 160+hp motors with some major abuse and all is good. They spoke to the MOCO and the bearing support does NOT void the warranty. How nice of them to let US pay to fix a problem of theirs!! Then they won't have to dish out any cash for repairs! Ron also said that some builders have added the support, even after a Timkin conversion just for extra protection.
 For more specific questions: RC Cycles (510)471-9755
                                        GP Designs(510)471-9815

Take care, [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Grover

[John S]

I guess it all comes down to what was working for 50 years all of a sudden was changed why?  Because some yahoo at Harley could get a bonus for reducing cost and/or improving the assembly process.  Now buyers have to live with a design flaw that CLEARLY is inferior to the old setup (did I say it worked well for over 50 years?).  

This is probably the same group of Yahoos who said "Hey!!! We can put a wider rear tire on just by narrowing the drive belt!" (an already link in the drivetrain).  Let's see now.  A wider tire that has more traction and is heavier to spin is now being driven by a narrower and weaker belt.   [smiley=oops.gif]

I love Harleys and I enjoy the ownership experience.  But these two alterations are extremely cheezy and are not in support of a quality product.  I have to say this even though it is out of place.  Do you think a Japaneze or German motorcycle maker would make decisions like this, risking a quality breach for a few more dollars in profits per bike?  Harley then has the nerve to say that your warrantee will be voided!  Why?  Because you want to make it like all the motors they warranteed for 50 years?  Give me a break!   [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

I see Zippers does this for $300.00.  Hey Harley Davidson!!!!  Instead of taking a powder on backing up your product, how about stepping up to the plate for the people who buy your product?  If there is a problem, pick up the tab for removing and installing the engine and have the dealers send the case out to be [highlight]upgraded [/highlight]to the Timkin style bearing at the owner's cost.  Now you turned a negative into a positive for your product!

   [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  [smiley=jalapeno.gif]  

[yelladeuce]

hey...I had this same failure and it nearly cost me my life (see previous posts). They acted like I am lucky just to get it fixed.

[DCFIREMANN]

 The bearing failure happened to me twice!! Check out the Twin cam section pg. 2 under 103 Blown Motor. Also look in the Custom Vehicle Discussions (SERK). "droc" has a post under oil pump failure, he had the same issue I had. I have only heard of this happening to a few other people, but who knows how many are out there.
  A buddy of mine is waiting delivery of his '06 CUSE and he is having the Bearing support installed before it leaves the dealership.

  I spoke to Ron of  RC Cycles and George from GP Designs. They both assured me that this is pretty much bullet proof. Ron and his team have done extensive testing w/ 160+hp motors with some major abuse and all is good. They spoke to the MOCO and the bearing support does NOT void the warranty. How nice of them to let US pay to fix a problem of theirs!! Then they won't have to dish out any cash for repairs! Ron also said that some builders have added the support, even after a Timkin conversion just for extra protection.
 For more specific questions: RC Cycles (510)471-9755
                                        GP Designs(510)471-9815

Take care, [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Grover

No matter what kind of fix the aftermarket comes up with, my bike means to much to me. I am still doing the timken bearing conversion on my EAGLE.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[grc]

I guess it all comes down to what was working for 50 years all of a sudden was changed why?  Because some yahoo at Harley could get a bonus for reducing cost and/or improving the assembly process.  Now buyers have to live with a design flaw that CLEARLY is inferior to the old setup (did I say it worked well for over 50 years?).  

This is probably the same group of Yahoos who said "Hey!!! We can put a wider rear tire on just by narrowing the drive belt!" (an already link in the drivetrain).  Let's see now.  A wider tire that has more traction and is heavier to spin is now being driven by a narrower and weaker belt.   [smiley=oops.gif]
 [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  [smiley=jalapeno.gif]  

Of course, when the bean counters take over a company this is the kind of stuff that happens.  I've seen it many times over the past 33 years at my employer; when the CEO is a "car guy" and engineer, the products get better.  Then when the job goes to one of the "bean counters", the products get cheapened to the point that I couldn't recommend them with a straight face.  If you noticed, H-D reported pretty impressive earnings recently, in a slightly down market. Since they are and have been making big profits, it's rather hard to understand the cost reductions to important items like the engine.  Hell, I'm sure all of us could give them better cost reduction ideas.  I'd be happy to eliminate some of the useless gauges, for instance.

Jerry

[hdhiwayman]

It seems as though the MOCO has forgotten that those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it. In the goood old AMF (POOR QUALITY DAYS) at HD, bikes were shipped with problems. Well its been 30 yrs in the making but HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!