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Author Topic: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious  (Read 3258 times)

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Two Wheels

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Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« on: July 16, 2009, 09:30:07 AM »

Gents:

I saw the chart / wear tear, etc in the prior posts on Amsoil versus HD Synthetic for our bikes.   Im just curious though, is Amsoil that much better of an oil than what HD puts out ?    I mean Im running HD Synth in there now, really plan on keeping this bike for a very long time .... I mean I may (and will!) eventually "add" to it but I'll never be able to get into a "CVO" or whatever limited edition brand Harley will have in the future so after reading some earlier threads it seems the opinion on the HD 20-50 is almost ... well negative.    Im almost tempted to drain out the now 500 mile old HD oil and throw in Amsoil.     Temp wise, wear wise, is that what most have done ?    Just 3400 miles on her so want to start early.

Also, the report mentioned the test was done with oil temps oat 200F, which is low on these bikes.   Any thoughts ? 

Thanks from a new SERK owner...   


ps   I had one of those nightmares last night where someone else, somehow, low sided my black ice SERK.  For the first five minutes (post wake up) I was in a panic. Then realized it was a dream (5 mintues was a long time to be in that state).  Ok this is getting into the Uhh ohhh, lets keep things sane here, this is a motorcycle .. :)       

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Gecko

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 01:00:16 PM »

It's not a question of whether SYN3 is "bad"; there are just better ones out there, especially for the transmission.  Some people have reported less engine noise using another brand, others no difference.  There are poeple who have used SYN3 for years.  I wouldn't drain it out if you just put it in, but the general opinion is Redline in the transmission.  I noticed an immediate improvement in finding neutral when I changed to it and I don't expect miracles when changing a fluid.  In the engine Amsoil, Mobil1, or whatever everybody else is going to chime in with that "they've been using forever and haven't had any problems".  Actual oil-caused failures are almost non-existent, what fails is a bad component or the oil delivery system; neither of which would be saved by oil that is twenty or even fifty percent better.  In the primary my opinion is it doesn't matter that much as it's just there to lube the chain and dampen the clutch.  I actually noticed a little more chain noise when I switched to Redline there compared to Mobil1, but no difference in how the clutch worked.

The great oil debate will rage on.  Dino oil is best; synthetic is best; yes, but you need to have more than 0.8% zinc in it to keep it from flying off above 5000 rpm; we use regurgitated seal oil in our airplanes and the bearings look like new; I use synthetic and change it every 2000 miles; gears tear up the polymers so you need nano-moly di-phospophoric acedamenaphine to fill in the micro-pores.  

Get the viscosity pretty close to right (there's another thread) and change it reasonably often and don't worry too much about it.   Harley has enough to worry about right now with the components they are using.  If they thought SYN3 was causing or contributing to their problems there would quietly be a change.  

Let the fun begin! :'(
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 01:22:41 PM by Gecko »
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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 03:14:26 PM »

You'll find no negatives spoken of Amsoil or Redline. Can't say the same about Syn 3. In the tranny I went from Syn 3, to BelRay to Redline. Each change made a noticeable improvement in shifting ease and noise and in finding neutral. I'll now stick w/ the Redline shockproof. In my motors I've used Syn 3 (from the factory) and Mobil 1 and now Amsoil. I'm very satisfied w/ them both. I'd keep the Syn 3 in for break in and dump it in favor of either of the above when it comes time to change.
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grc

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 08:58:26 PM »


First, no matter what any of us may tell you, SYN3 is not a lousy motor oil.  If you read the full set of tests posted elsewhere, you noticed that the overall rating for SYN3 placed it around the middle of the pack.  In other words, there were some other widely known brands that rated lower.  If you are happy with SYN3 and want to stick with it, then don't let a bunch of people on some website talk you out of it.  As Gecko pointed out, failures actually caused by motor oil are basically nonexistent in modern times, as long as the correct API classification and SAE grade/weight are used and changed at the proper intervals.  If you want to worry about something, worry about the cheap Chinese parts Harley uses, not the motor oil.

Second, just like one size rarely fits all, one oil in all three holes rarely results in optimal performance.  Engines perform under much different conditions than primaries and transmissions, and they all need lubricants formulated for their specific needs.  Yes, you can use one fluid in all three holes, but it is not the best way.  One oil in all three holes is a convenience and marketing tool, and isn't based on true engineering knowledge.  BTW, does your automobile or truck use the same oil in the engine, automatic transmission, and the axle?  Wonder why that is? :confused5:

Jerry
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SERK3

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 09:07:18 PM »

My SERK came with Syn3, changed it to H-D Dino oil then back to Syn3 and now Mobil 1 in all three holes and seems to be doing very well. Next oil change i'm going to the shock proof in the tranny.
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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 10:36:17 PM »

My SERK came with Syn3, changed it to H-D Dino oil then back to Syn3 and now Mobil 1 in all three holes and seems to be doing very well. Next oil change i'm going to the shock proof in the tranny.

You will like it!   :2vrolijk_21:
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SBB

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 10:52:26 PM »

You will like it!   :2vrolijk_21:

Wonder if it works as good as mazola oil and mayonaise mixed together?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

 ;)


SBB


 :2vrolijk_21:
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opee6969

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 11:18:14 PM »

I just switched to Amsoil in the engine and primary and Redline in the tranny. I'm not sure about the claims of the engine running cooler, but it's definitely not making as much top end noise as it did with the Syn3. The transmission shifts much smoother and neutral is no longer a mature task to find. Over all, I've gone about a thousand miles on the Amsoil/Reline combo and I'm pleased.

Opee
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Two Wheels

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2009, 12:57:42 PM »

Thanks all for the advise.  Its interesting.  I mean I did buy it used with about 3100 miles on it from a trusted source and to my knowledge its running Synth3 (at least at this time it is) but it really shifts smooth, no problem at all on neutral.   I was actually surprised.  But I like the Amsoil and Redline advise.  Thanks
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harleyteam

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2009, 04:24:55 PM »

regurgitated seal oil ??????????????????

who in their right mind, follows a seal around and waits for it to puke ?  :nixweiss:


as Groucho would say,
why thats the most rediculous thing I ever heard   :huepfenlol2:
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tocotoco40

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2018, 10:03:36 AM »

I had to share my experience in case some one still looking for reviews. Well 2014 RK CVO, I decided to try new oil. Mobil 1 in the engine, Formula + in the primary and royal purple in the Tranny 75-w90. Transmission shifted like crap with RP. too loud and sucked, 20.00 bucks down the drain, went back to the dealer and got me another quart of formula + and filled the transmission and this thing now is smooth, and way less noise going into 1st gear, 2nd and up they are so smooth. all this to say, Formula + works and Syn3 is the same as Mobil 1 as well.
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iski

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2018, 12:42:22 PM »

Amsoil writes and/or pays writers to write great reviews of it's oil to post online, smart marketing.  Oil " comparison reviews" are largely advertisements.  Syn 3 is fine, so is Redline, so is Amsoil, so is Mobile 1, & Valvoline (have used all these with zero problems) as long as they are rated for Motorcycle use.  As to one being "better" than another, you bet they are, each one has somebody that will tell you that one is better than the other one.  Or worse. 



Chip I tend to stay away from the mayonnaise additives, they remind me too much of Richard Gere in Officer & a Gentleman & I do not need that kind of grief in my life.  ;)
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skratch

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2018, 01:57:07 PM »

it doesn't even have to be rated 'for motorcycle use'.  most of that stems from metric bikes using the same oil for the engine and clutch pack.  so the friction modifiers that are added to the engine oil are bad for the clutch plates, cause slipping.  our bikes don't share the oil.  so while you would want to use an oil that is wet clutch compatible in your primary, the engine doesn't need that restriction.

my 'formula':

engine - mobil1 15w-50  $25 for a 5 qt jug from walmart
primary - shell rotella t 15w-40  $15 for a 4 qt jug again walmart or any automotive store auto zone, etc.  it is jaso rated for wet clutch use.

i change them both every 5000 miles

tranny - supertech full synthetic 75w-90 gear oil  $6 from walmart

change tranny every 20k as recommended.  figure if a manual trans in a car can go over 100k without a change, we should be able to do 20k easy enough.

i don't really mind spending the money if a product is 'that much better', but if i don't have to, then i'm not.  i like less than $50 for an oil change.  especially when after you buy it the first time, the next time is much less.  you'll have to buy 2 qts of 15w-50 for the next go round.  unless you want to change your tranny fluid again, but it isn't necessary.
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mark z

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2018, 08:25:23 PM »

Is anybody useing Schaeffer’s motorcycle lubercants. I spoke with a HD service manager in NW Wisconsin and he swears by it. Says your bike will run noticbly cooler.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/motorcycle-lubricants.html
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windjammer

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Re: Another Oil Thread ... Just curious
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2018, 09:50:04 PM »

Schaeffers is the best I have used hands down cooler quieter and better oil pressure. Belray in the trans. Amsoil gave me more top end noise than the Syn3. Scooter at Rice Lake HD in NW WI knows what he is talking about I am a convert.





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