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Author Topic: EPA and US !  (Read 1560 times)

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Willie D

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EPA and US !
« on: December 06, 2005, 10:10:03 AM »

I found this 'Riders' comments very 'Right On'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
vtwin_nut2 Sent: 12/6/2005 8:38 AM
In my humble opinion, deathwish, FastFLSTF, and a few others with a more "mature" outlook have it right. I know that Ed E. would agree with them as well, he was an advocate of what he called "quiet power". We shared a pet peeve with the bulk of the HD world that FastFLSTF phrased so well in his post. For a bunch of "bad boys", the group sure comes across as a bunch of immature, whining, mis-behaved little kids.

It's time to grow up and learn how to deal with the system on it's own terms before the system deals with us in a way most of us will not like. We as a group, are in the minority. You can win a revolution by overwhelming force or cunning and manipulation. Overwhelming force by a group such as ours is highly unlikely, so cunning and manipulation is likely our only hope. Becoming active with orgs such as ABATE and AMA is a good start --- or you can lay in your crib and cry waiting for mama to come and change your diaper and give you your bottle.

Ban me if you want, but if you truly enjoy freedoms and joys that riding a motorcycle can give to you, do something to ensure that not only will you be able to continue to enjoy it, but future generations will be able to as well. Riding and acting like a bunch of idiots, bringing attention to yourself and others with execessively loud exhausts and so on is a guarantee that more stupid laws and restrictions will be forthcoming. EPA and CARB regs are going to be there, no matter what. At least with some intelligent lobbying and negotiations there is a chance to have them be reasonable regs we can all live with. Given free reign, the eco-freaks will have the IC engine and motorized vehicles go the way of the dinosaur long before they were ever intended to.

While the above "targets" the HD/Cruiser world, it applies to all motorcyclists. There is more than enough "guilt" to go around. Since I ride more than one brand and more than one type of motorcycle I do my best to promote good "public relations" with the many different types of riders I come in contact with as well as support and participate in many motorcycle orgs --- I'm trying to do my part. Ask yourselves, are you part of the solution, or are you part of the problem?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 10:55:48 AM by JCZ »
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HUBBARD

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Re: EPA and US !
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2005, 12:48:42 PM »

Yeah, 'er 'uh, Willie D,
  Reasonable regs?  Since when has the Federal Government become "reasonable?"  I respect you for being part of the solution.  I hope you will do the same for me, as I am part of the problem, and will continue to hold that position.  We can disagree, but don't have to be disagreeable.  I no longer run "Drag Pipes", but I do run RINEHART True-Duals, with baffles.  Not deafening, but you can hear Ol' Maudie coming!  LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!  I Love this Country, but I am afraid of my Government!  That's sad.  Later--HUBBARD      
« Last Edit: December 07, 2005, 12:53:14 PM by HUBBARD »
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Tonys

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Re: EPA and US !
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2005, 11:31:18 PM »

Quote
Yeah, 'er 'uh, Willie D,
  Reasonable regs?  Since when has the Federal Government become "reasonable?"  I respect you for being part of the solution.  I hope you will do the same for me, as I am part of the problem, and will continue to hold that position.  We can disagree, but don't have to be disagreeable.  I no longer run "Drag Pipes", but I do run RINEHART True-Duals, with baffles.  Not deafening, but you can hear Ol' Maudie coming!  LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!  I Love this Country, but I am afraid of my Government!  That's sad.  Later--HUBBARD      
DITTO! I couldn't have said it better..
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SPIDERMAN

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Re: EPA and US !
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2005, 02:49:41 PM »

Is the issue noise abatement or pollution prevention ? I think you can run a quieter pipe than a Reinhart (even though I love mine) and still get decent performance. I do not think you run a pipe with anything approaching a performance curve and get acceptable smog levels. Realizing that I do not know a lot on this subject, I am certainly open to anyone explaining to me how you could have an exhaust system with a little more rumble than stock and still meet EPA regs. I know you can keep the noise down and the perforamance up by increasing pipe diameter, but I'm asking how to do that AND factor in smog regs. If you follow automobile technology, they have accepted the catalytic converters as a done deal and the aftermarket auto exhaust manufacturers talk about " Cat Back" systems. Given only about 3 feet of total exhaust length to work with from port to rear fender, that doesn't seem to be an option for us. As O'Reilly says " what say you ? "
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grc

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Re: EPA and US !
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2005, 03:10:12 PM »

Quote
Is the issue noise abatement or pollution prevention ? I think you can run a quieter pipe than a Reinhart (even though I love mine) and still get decent performance. I do not think you run a pipe with anything approaching a performance curve and get acceptable smog levels. Realizing that I do not know a lot on this subject, I am certainly open to anyone explaining to me how you could have an exhaust system with a little more rumble than stock and still meet EPA regs. I know you can keep the noise down and the perforamance up by increasing pipe diameter, but I'm asking how to do that AND factor in smog regs. If you follow automobile technology, they have accepted the catalytic converters as a done deal and the aftermarket auto exhaust manufacturers talk about " Cat Back" systems. Given only about 3 feet of total exhaust length to work with from port to rear fender, that doesn't seem to be an option for us. As O'Reilly says " what say you ? "
Spiderman,

In this instance, the EPA regulation referred to is for sound levels.  Noise pollution is also part of the EPA regs.  IMHO, the main problem with regard to bikes and noise isn't the low restriction mufflers most of us install.  The real problem is the juvenile morons who run open pipes and constantly rev the engine to maximize the noise and irritation level, especially in otherwise quiet neighborhoods, sitting at traffic lights, etc.  If we could eliminate the juvenile behavior, most folks wouldn't consider motorcyles to be a major noise problem.  BTW, even with open pipes, a person can ride fairly quietly when they want to.  Just watch how one of these folks pulls away from a light when there is a cop sitting next to them.

Jerry
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SPIDERMAN

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Re: EPA and US !
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2005, 03:52:16 PM »

Just to let you know idiots on motorcycles are not just an American Phenomenon, in Japan, they have these kids that chop their two stroke Honyamsuki's  in ways the Captain and Billy never dreamed of and they ride around in groups of anywhere from 50 -100 (no chit) revving their engines and sounding like an end of the world swarm of killer bees. They do it as a way of rebelling against the conformist mode of Japanese society. They are referred to as Bosu-Zoku  (crazy people) by the older Japanese and  a pain in the ass by the younger english speaking ones.
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spydglide

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Re: EPA and US !
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2005, 04:30:51 PM »

Quote
Just to let you know idiots on motorcycles are not just an American Phenomenon, in Japan, they have these kids that chop their two stroke Honyamsuki's  in ways the Captain and Billy never dreamed of and they ride around in groups of anywhere from 50 -100 (no chit) revving their engines and sounding like an end of the world swarm of killer bees. They do it as a way of rebelling against the conformist mode of Japanese society. They are referred to as Bosu-Zoku  (crazy people) by the older Japanese and  a pain in the ass by the younger english speaking ones.
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RedFXR2

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Re: EPA and US !
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2005, 04:57:06 PM »

Let me paint a picture:

There's a waterfront bar near my house, and motorcycles are all over the place in Florida. This bar is popular with all kinds of people, meaning on any given evening, there will be quite a few bikes in the parking lot. In fact, the place has a special parking area up front just for bikes. Fantastic place to have a cold one and watch the sunset. They have a sign out front asking riders to please be considerate of the neighbors in terms of how much noise they make with their bikes.

There's only one entry drive to the marina where the bar is located. There are houses down this entry all the way to the marina parking lot. Back at the corner of the main road and the entry drive is a seafood restaurant with outdoor seating. Great food at this restaurant.

I've been at both places. Love both of them. But here's what I've seen while at the restaurant:

Sitting there with the wife and kids while groups of loud bikes roar up the entry drive to the main road, sit and roll on their throttles just outside the open eating area and then take off. Sitting there, I can hear them as they first crank up down at the marina, then blast up the residential street to the intersection and the restaurant. Now, I've heard enough of this to where it doesn't bother me as much as I can tell that it bothers others. But even I admit that conversation is impossible when there are bikes at the intersection. Looking around at the patrons, it's easy to see how annoyed many of them are. Anybody trying to talk to a waitress just has to wait until the bikes are gone. Waitresses look annoyed, too, as they tap their toes and wait to finish taking someone's order.  Everything at the restaurant stops.  Every time this happens, another restaurant full of folks gets a negative impression of motorcycles in general.

My bike has aftermarket pipes with baffled mufflers that (IMO) make a pleasing rumble yet I know are nowhere near as loud as many other exhaust systems out there. I used to have a much louder set of pipes, myself. I took them off because they were too loud even for me, the rider.  Hurt my ears after an hour or so.  Even with the quieter pipes, however, I wouldn't sit there with six other riders, just outside an open-air restaurant full of people and tweak the throttle over and over. I don't know if most of those folks are doing it on purpose or just innocently ignorant while having their fun, but it's easy to see that the people trying to have dinner don't like it.  I can't say that I blame them.

I like the HD sound but even I don't want to hear loud pipes...well, when I don't want to hear loud pipes. If I want to load up on good exhaust sound, I'll go to a rally or a bike event. As has been said already, we could do ourselves a big favor by walking even a short distance in the shoes of others and realizing that we are going to have to look at ourselves as noise ordinances gain more and more popularity.  It's a tricky balance between our desire to pursue our interest and have fun and other folks' not being interested at all in hearing our bikes.

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SPIDERMAN

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Re: EPA and US !
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2005, 08:34:36 PM »

Next time you see these guys, have someone do lookout duty and put some spuds in their pipes while they're drinkin beer.  
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