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[gemiller111]

At the risk of sounding as ignorant as I truly am on this particular subject, I will ask a question that I could not find an answer to by searching the forum.

What is the risk (if any) to changing out the exhaust and the air intake and not adding a PCIII (or similar)?  The tech we trust at the dealer told me when I changed my exhaust that no downloads were available for my CUSE2, none needed, just hit the street and have fun.  A buddy with an 09' CUSE4 talks about how his bike really opened up after installing a Stage 1 air cleaner.  He didn't change anything except that and the exhaust.  I have V&H MOs on my CUSE2 and am thinking about installing a Ness Big Sucker.  Looking for a bit more power and a little cooler motor would be nice.  But having never used a PCIII or SERT, reading all of the voided warranty discussions (I have a extended warranty), and finding no real map on the PC website for a 2007 CVO 110, I am confused.  I think the PCIII is useful if you know what you are doing but is it necessary?  Will I screw up my engine if I add the Sucker and don't have a PCIII?  Thanks.

[mjb765]

I would recommend a tuner. You helped the motor by adding the new exhaust, but now you are going to take in more air which requires more fuel. These things are already running lean from the MoCO and more air will just make it worse. If you want to run cooler you need to add more fuel.  As for which tuner--if you are going to dyno it then speak to the guy who will do that. Most of them have a preference on which tuner they like and since they will be the one doing the tuning it will be easier for them to work with something they know. Al lot of guys here--including me are using a TTS mastertune, but a PC will work just fine as well. Just my $.02

[Heatwave]

At the risk of sounding as ignorant as I truly am on this particular subject, I will ask a question that I could not find an answer to by searching the forum.

What is the risk (if any) to changing out the exhaust and the air intake and not adding a PCIII (or similar)?  The tech we trust at the dealer told me when I changed my exhaust that no downloads were available for my CUSE2, none needed, just hit the street and have fun.  A buddy with an 09' CUSE4 talks about how his bike really opened up after installing a Stage 1 air cleaner.  He didn't change anything except that and the exhaust.  I have V&H MOs on my CUSE2 and am thinking about installing a Ness Big Sucker.  Looking for a bit more power and a little cooler motor would be nice.  But having never used a PCIII or SERT, reading all of the voided warranty discussions (I have a extended warranty), and finding no real map on the PC website for a 2007 CVO 110, I am confused.  I think the PCIII is useful if you know what you are doing but is it necessary?  Will I screw up my engine if I add the Sucker and don't have a PCIII?  Thanks.

You won't be happy with the bike if you change the exhaust/intake and then skip tuning the bike. You're essentially wasting your money on the improvements if you don't tune the bike to take advantage of the improvements.

[Harleypingman]

The risks of adding the hi-flow a/c and less restrictive mufflers without altering the air fuel mixtures pre-programmed by HD in the ECM is even more heat for you (since leaning the a/f mixture will increase engine heat) which may lead to reduced engine life and a potential warranty dispute should you have an engine problem in the future.  HD requires adjusting the afr when installing the heavy breather air cleaner kit, for example.  Fuel serves to cool the cylinder heads, and leaning the mixture (which is what happens when you increase air flow without an equivalent increase in fuel) by increasing the air through the motor with a hi-flow a/c and less restrictive mufflers, will increase engine heat.

The "may void the warranty" concern is not a problem when the air fuel mixture is changed by a competent tuner.  There are a variety of products which can change the air fuel mixture pre-programmed by HD in the bike's ECM, and these products allow the mixture to be changed in ways that will lead to engine damage in the hands of incompetent persons.  So it makes sense that HD can deny a warranty or declare a repair under an Extended Service Plan as not covered in those situations.

Proper use and maintenance of the motorcycle requires that the air fuel mixture be changed to accommodate the engine's increased air flow resulting from the mods you contemplate.  Not changing the mixture simply means that the harm being done will be influenced by the load placed on the engine and riding environment (riding two-up loaded with stuff, lots of low speed urban/suburban riding, high ambient air temps, etc.).

Find a competent tuner and let him tune the bike with the PCIII (if you have one) or buy the SEST or TTS and get a comprehensive dyno tune for your own peace of mind and a cooler running engine.





 

[gemiller111]

Thanks all.

Guy

[timo482]

if you install a tuner - the warranty is void - end of story - but if a dealer installs it they might cover the warranty, or they might not.

however there ARE warranty legal combinations & warranty legal downloads for street legal parts.

that said - real world testing has shown that a simple muffler swap or a simple air cleaner swap is probably ok since the o2's will adjust the entire map.

the straight pciii will disable the o2's so at that point you really need to be sure its right since the self adjusting feature goes away & of course with a pciii the warranty is void. if you google "power commander fine" you will find they paid out a 1million fine & the new street legal power commander does NOTHING at any rpm that results in a street legal speed - the thing only changes the mixture above 75mph.

and of course - some bikes for whatever reason run hotter than others & that is a problem

if you want to hot rod a bike - forget the warranty.

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