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[SBB]

It is the average guy such as employees that get hurt the most.
What about the people that have died or have been injured due to this problem? Once dead do you think they care about the Toyota employees?
    
The affected cars do not accelerate on there own.
Very true. It takes customers. So if no one bought a Toyota then there wouldn't be a problem?

    Lance
 

My take on this is that it's a sad chain of events that Toyota has addressed very poorly.

SBB

[geezerglide]

First and foremost - the media does a real good job of blowing every thing out of proportion.

Lance

If Toyota would not have originally blamed all of  the problems on the so called "floor mats bunched up under the gas pedal" story the whole situation may have gone over better with the consumer.

The only reason Toyota finally admitted to the "gas pedal" built by others problem, was after the NHSTA called "bullchit" which forced Toyota to come clean on the real problem instead of the "floor mat pedal story" which Toyota initially blamed the manufacturer of the gas pedal, who of course chimed in that they built to Toyota Engineering Specifications. It is the same CYA public relations exercise.

I hope this gets all cleared up without anyone else getting hurt or killed.

geezerglide

[grc]

And I too will step into this one.
I am also a Toyota sales mgr, and I have a few things to say about this.

First and foremost - the media does a real good job of blowing every thing out of perportion.
Yes they do.  Where were you and Toyota when the media was only picking on the Big 3 and ignoring the problems of Toyota?
 
    The Denso made accelerator in Toyotas works just fine.
What are you calling the accelerator?  The pedal, the throttle body actuator, the electronics,    If they work just fine, why is Toyota recalling them?  I don't follow what you're trying to say.
    It is the average guy such as employees that get hurt the most.
Actually it is the customer who gets hurt the most, since they are the potential victims in a crash, and they stand to lose money as the issue affects the near term resale value.  Employee's also suffer more than executives, but that's nothing new just for Toyota.
    The affected cars do not accelerate on there own.
Says who?  Last time I researched the issue, no one had come up with a definite answer to the runaway cars.  Blaming it on the floor mats was quickly proven to be BS, since the problem continued with cars that had the floor mats in the trunk as per Toyota's recommendation.  If the issue was strictly the pedal sticking, I guess we have to assume that everyone who has had the engine go to wide open throttle must have been standing on the pedal right before it stuck.  I wasn't aware that the typical Toyota and Lexus customer drove with their foot planted on the floor.
    Toyota plants have shut down in order to get parts to current owners first.
That is a commendable action.  The problem came about when they shipped the new parts to the plants without communicating exactly what they were doing, thus giving the impression they were going to use the new parts for production first.  That's the way Harley does things, btw, let the customer wait while they get the new stuff into production first.
   
As far as North American Auto makers go, rich executives that run these companies screwed the American and Canadian consumers a long time ago. Individual private jets and multimillion dollar salaries
go along way to paying people to work in the factories.

So is buying a "domestic" made in Mexico domestic, or is buying a Toyota Tundra made in Texas an Import.

My H.D. is from U.S.A., my Corolla is from Canada. Take a look around hour house or your yard and tell me it is not a world economy
I also vacation in the States, is that wrong or should I spend my money in my own back yard.

Lance
 

Lance, where you spend your money is your business and no one else's.  If you got the impression that any of us were saying otherwise, I think you misunderstood what was being said. 


Jerry

[ultrafxr]

This is from Consumer Reports on how to deal with sudden unintended acceleration (SUA) if it should occur in your vehicle.  I can tell you from personal experience that it is startling and scary even though my 'incident' was right in my own driveway and lasted only a few seconds.  Several years ago (well over ten I think) I had a repair man replacing some siding on my home and his pickup (not a Toyota but cannot recall if it was a Ford or Chevy - anyway no TBW for sure back then) was in the drive blocking my car from moving from the garage.  He had backed it up the driveway and there was room to back it maybe another ten feet or so before the drive has a pretty good hill behind it.  He was on the ladder and said 'the keys are in the truck, just back it up.'  I got in, left the driver's door open and even had my left leg outside the vehicle as I turned to look over my left shoulder so I could see how far to back up.  When I put the automatic transmission in reverse that thing took off like a bat out of hell and I swear that my foot was NOT on the accelerator.  I finally managed to get it stopped my literally standing on the brakes.  Then I had to go change my pants.  If you should find yourself on the roadway and this happens perhaps the advice from Consumer Reports can help.

[porthole]

19 fatalities so far and over 300 injuries.
Just heard a 911 tape that was sad.

People panic, and most likely that is why they don't think to shift into neutral or turn off the ignition (which has it own consequences).

If you don't practice it you will not do it in an emergency. You need to be conditioned to do it, maybe not you, but certainly your non mechanical wife or maybe your kids.

Has nothing to do with the toyo problem, but many years ago basic scuba instruction always taught to drop your weight belt in an emergency.

Teach it and practice it, make it second nature., Only problem was that we were taught how to remove our weight and hold it out away from our body so it would drop clear. BUT we were instructed to not drop it so as not to damage the pool tiles. What do you think the outcome of this is?

Divers in life threatening emergencies were found dead  on the bottom clutching their weight belts.

Have you ever changed lanes on an uneven road surface and your first instinct was to turn back into the drop off?

[porthole]

My H.D. is from U.S.A

But what percentage of it is not?

[flhse]

This issue is covered real well this week on  http://www.autoextremist.com/   By Peter M. De Lorenzo

One excerpt:

Toyota. By not getting out front of this story you have managed to blow it up real good to the point that your reputation will be in the dumper for years. Now the chorus of "what did they know and when did they know it" is growing louder by the day, and your turn in the barrel in Washington, D.C., is sure to be embarrassing and excruciatingly painful. And oh, by the way, what if there is something wrong with your "drive by wire" electronic systems? Because something tells us that this "fix" is a band-aid designed to appease people and take the steam out of the hysteria. What if there is a "ghost in the machine" that you can't detect, let alone predict? Oh, we forgot, there are always "sun spots," right? No, this isn't going away anytime soon, as much as you - and The New York Times - want it to.

[ultrafxr]

This issue is covered real well this week on  http://www.autoextremist.com/   By Peter M. De Lorenzo

One excerpt:

Toyota. By not getting out front of this story you have managed to blow it up real good to the point that your reputation will be in the dumper for years. Now the chorus of "what did they know and when did they know it" is growing louder by the day, and your turn in the barrel in Washington, D.C., is sure to be embarrassing and excruciatingly painful. And oh, by the way, what if there is something wrong with your "drive by wire" electronic systems? Because something tells us that this "fix" is a band-aid designed to appease people and take the steam out of the hysteria. What if there is a "ghost in the machine" that you can't detect, let alone predict? Oh, we forgot, there are always "sun spots," right? No, this isn't going away anytime soon, as much as you - and The New York Times - want it to.

Whew, that guy nailed it totally.  Great article and speaks to my point exactly.

[kraut]

japanese media reported yesterday that while 1,8 Mio cars in Europe and 2,3 Mion cars In USA/Canada are affected by this recall new issues with the brakes of the latest Prius-model have surfaced. Further Renault seems to have used the same throttle-system as Toyota in some models and the German authority on vehicle safety is already inquiring incidents. Bad news.

[Gettinold]

Heres a interesting article of an accident here in the bay area the other night involving a Toyota.................http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/local/pinellas/toyota-crash-st-pete-020210

[kraut]

I remember some 30 years ago I used to have this (floor mat dislocated and blocking gas pedal) with a TR 6 - and in those day's we didn't drive by wire  As it wasn't an automatic car the problem was easily controlled by stepping on the clutch an rearranging the floor mat. No recall was ever made to adress this - acoording to my dealer - well known "feature"  of the beautifull little sportscar

[Chains]

Suppliers response, note they state some go back to 2002 before they were a supplier.  Automotive news reports they go back to 1999.

CTS Comments on Toyota’s January 21 Safety Voluntary Recall


Elkhart, IN…CTS Corporation (NYSE: CTS) today provided comments on Toyota’s recent accelerator pedal recall. As previously announced by Toyota, the January 21 voluntary recall results from what Toyota described as “a rare set of conditions which may cause the accelerator pedal to become harder to depress, slower to return or, in the worst case, stuck in a partially depressed position.” Toyota said this condition “is rare and occurs gradually over a period of time.”

As has been publically stated by Toyota, we have no knowledge of any accidents or injuries that have resulted from this rare potential condition. Based on information that Toyota has provided us, we are aware of fewer than a dozen instances where this condition has occurred, and in no instance did the accelerator actually become stuck in a partially depressed condition.  

As Toyota stated, this recall is different from and unrelated to the “sudden, unintended acceleration issue” which was the subject of the November 2009 Toyota recall. In the November recall, the pedals in Toyota models dated back to model year 2002. CTS became a pedal supplier in 2005.  Accordingly, our products are not implicated by the November 2009 recall.  The products we supply to Toyota, including the pedals covered by the recent recall, have been manufactured to Toyota’s design specifications.

Toyota is a small, but important, customer of CTS, representing approximately 3% of our annual sales. CTS has been actively working with Toyota for awhile to develop a new pedal to meet tougher specifications from Toyota.  The newly designed pedal is now tested and parts are beginning to ship to some Toyota factories.

[grc]

Yup, floor mats have been getting tangled up with accelerator pedals for decades, probably throughout the history of floor mats.  Fortunately most auto companies started putting anchors in the floor and holes in the floor mat that locked over those anchors to prevent this sort of thing back in the 90's.  However, that doesn't help much if the aftermarket mats don't utilize the anchors, or if the owners and/or operators of those cars don't buy mats specifically designed to fit the car and then use the anchors properly.  Unfortunately, common sense cannot be legislated.  Also unfortunately, common sense isn't so common.

There will be examples of all kinds of "causes" for out-of-control Toyota's now that the media has finally paid some attention to problems with Toyota's.  Hopefully, a few examples of misplaced floor mats won't divert attention from the real issues.  I also noticed that lots of other folks who have been sitting in the weeds are now coming out and talking about issues with their Toyota's.  I saw one on the news yesterday concerning Apple co-founder Wozniak; it seems that his Prius has a tendency to take off on it's own when he engages his cruise control, so he is postulating for the news media that this shows there is an electronic issue.  

I think we will be seeing a lot more in the coming weeks and months about this little fiasco, at least until the media can come up with some dirt on one of the American companies to divert attention.

Jerry

[ultrafxr]

This is somewhat reminiscent of the SUA problem involving Audi 5000 back in the early 80s when they claimed that drivers stepped on the accelerator instead of the brake.  There is a wealth of articles about SUA on the internet but here is an excerpt from one that I think is right on the money:

Indeed, the history of sudden unintended acceleration is studded with poor research, regulatory omissions and industry success in holding off any serious outside examination of malfunctions within a vehicle's electronic systems.

Sudden unintended acceleration is a complex problem. There are multiple causes when a vehicle shoots forward or back in apparent contradiction to the driver's commands: design defects which induce driver error – such as poor pedal placement, the lack of a shift interlock, floor mat interference, mechanical or electromechanical defects and electronic defects. The latter –which is the most difficult to pinpoint – is nonetheless a more likely possibility as vehicle systems rely more heavily on sophisticated computer-driven electronics. And yet, automakers and NHTSA behave as though it is perfectly rational to assume that electronics housed in the hostile automotive environment – including the fault detection system – will always function as intended, and that malfunctions will be easily reproduced in a laboratory setting. - (emphasis added is mine)

Here is a link to the complete story:  www.safetyresearch.net/2009/07/20/sudden-acceleration/

[jimsmith94]

Here's a story about Apple's co-founder Steve Wozniak and acceleration problems with his 2010 Toyota Prius: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10445564-64.html