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[Ed45]

A biker friend and I would like to sponsor a poker run this summer for benefit of a local hospital. I mentioned it to a lawyer friend and asked him about liability we would be exposed to. After explaining what a poker run is he replied "You are sponsoring a drinking event on motorcycles? You gotta be crazy, no way, you could face major legal issues". How do others handle this? Advice and tips greatly appreciated. Thanks

[49445CVO]

Our club has all people, passengers too, sign a waiver stating that they are liable and know the risks invovled. I believe there are blanket forms on google.

[49445CVO]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=motorcycle+poker+run+release+form&rlz=1R2ADFA_enUS353&aq=5sx&aqi=g-sx8&aql=&oq=mortorcycle+poker+run+&gs_rfai=

These are general registration forms and should be checked over by an attorney for your liability.

[Ultra2010]

damn... wonder whatever happened to individual responsibility..... can't remember just when it left and then slowly everyone became responsible for every other adult.....

[J-Carr]

Depending on the state, the liability waive forms are not legally binding.  I believe New Jersey is one for example.  Certain groups like H.O.G. can provide insurance for events that meet their requirements, but this wouldn't be one.

Ride Safe,
J-Carr

[Screamin]

Sorry man. Sponsoring a run is a can of worms you probably don't want to get into. If you're an AMA member you might check their site. Personal liability will eat your $$.

[ultrafxr]

A biker friend and I would like to sponsor a poker run this summer for benefit of a local hospital. I mentioned it to a lawyer friend and asked him about liability we would be exposed to. After explaining what a poker run is he replied "You are sponsoring a drinking event on motorcycles? You gotta be crazy, no way, you could face major legal issues". How do others handle this? Advice and tips greatly appreciated. Thanks

If you are providing alcohol then that is a BIG problem imo.  If 'only' going to restaurants where alcohol is served (and preferably that being at the end of the poker run after the riding is over) then I think your liability would be more limited.  In any case I would not do it without obtaining some sort of 'event insurance' as a cya.  No offense to any attorneys on the site but there are way too many lawyers with way too much time on their hands looking for folks to sue whenever anyone is injured.  As you said personal responsibility seems to be dead.  It is always someone else's fault for what they did or did not do that caused the injury.

[Chains]

If you are providing alcohol then that is a BIG problem imo.  If 'only' going to restaurants where alcohol is served (and preferably that being at the end of the poker run after the riding is over) then I think your liability would be more limited.  In any case I would not do it without obtaining some sort of 'event insurance' as a cya.  No offense to any attorneys on the site but there are way too many lawyers with way too much time on their hands looking for folks to sue whenever anyone is injured.  As you said personal responsibility seems to be dead.  It is always someone else's fault for what they did or did not do that caused the injury.

Totaly agree, some people drink way too much on two wheels, I have dropped out mid way in poker runs before after the alcohol took over on 50% of the riders, too damn crazy, bikes bouncing off one another at high speed.  I would never sponsor a run without waivers and a route less bars. Those that want to drink can stop elsewhere it will save your $.

[ragtop13]

Not only is the liability an issue, but you have to have the right IRS tax id for a non-profit charitable organization (that's how the HOG clubs are setup (I think  )), otherwise the participants can't claim it as a charitable contribution and you could be liable for taxes on the monies collected if not done right.  Although what you are doing is a good thing, by the time it's all over and done, it probably would be easier to write a check yourself and give it the to the hospital and then go on your own private charity ride...

[napalm]

Hate to say it, but when ever anyone organizes and leads a ride there is an implied liability involved with the organisers and leaders.  I stopped being the lead a long time ago.  You never know...

napalm

[JCZ]

Our club has all people, passengers too, sign a waiver stating that they are liable and know the risks invovled. I believe there are blanket forms on google.

Any attorney worth his/her weight will punch right through those waivers and disclaimers.  And, it's probably not the riders that you'd have to worry about, anyway.......it would be that innocent family on their way home from church or the property owner where the accident occured, etc. etc.  We talked with a couple attorney members on this forum about this issue .......that's exactly why I never got into charging a registration fee at any of the GTGs that I put together (and still don't) or making it formal or organized in any kind of way (everybody makes all their own arrangments for lodging and restaurants....to keep it individual)....that opens the door for huge liability issues.  

We also looked into an umrella policy but that was cost prohibitive.  Also, they wouldn't ensure an event that wasn't at a specific address......where vehicles are moving from point A to point B to point C, etc.

Many states have percentage liability laws.  A car turns left in front of you.......he may be 80% liabel and the bike rider 10% and the organizer of the event 10%.  Or, the club or organization could be found 0% responsable but you just spent $10,000 in defense funds.  Many of the larger clubs now maintain a defense fund for such occassions.

[Cvostu]

EASY,,, Just Don't Do It!!!   not worth the headache that could be involved...You can always donate to cancer.

[Ed45]

As usual, great feedback. We also discussed a NON-ALCOHOLIC poker run, going to a few of our area's beautiful parks and a regular (non-alcohol) restaurant for lunch. Could you all please comment on what you'd think of a non-alcohol poker run. I don't know that its ever been done but personally like the idea and I am a drinker.

[J-Carr]

As an officer with my local H.O.G. chapter, I've actually had a bit of training on this and you probably won't like my advice:

You still expose yourself to a big liability issue.  The fact is, Poker Runs are lots of fun but never make money if they're done in a manner that protects the organizer.  Many charities will decline to have a poker run done using their name because of potential liability.

You have two choices if you insist on a riding based fund raiser:

1. Do the run without insurance, and pray nothing happens.  You'll make a few bucks.
2. Do the run with insurance and make little or no money.

It sucks and it's not fair and the lawyers will tell you that they're just advocates, but the fact is that they've insured that no laws get made or passed to protect someone trying to do something for charity.  The AMA and H.O.G. and some other organizations have insurance to cover official rides but even then there's a insurance fee when you open them to the public.  And it's almost always is as much as you make off the ride.  And if the weather turns bad, you could end up owing more then you make.

Pass a can and then go for a ride.  Tell people they're welcome to follow you if they want.  It's up to them.

Ride Safe,
J-Carr

[ultrafxr]

As usual, great feedback. We also discussed a NON-ALCOHOLIC poker run, going to a few of our area's beautiful parks and a regular (non-alcohol) restaurant for lunch. Could you all please comment on what you'd think of a non-alcohol poker run. I don't know that its ever been done but personally like the idea and I am a drinker.

Here is an idea.  Like J-Carr I have been an officer in our H.O.G. chapter for many years.  H.O.G. carries liability insurance for such events and a poker run is an approved event.  So if you are a member of your local H.O.G. chapter and can get them to take charge of the event you can get coverage pretty cheaply.  By advertising it to the public it becomes an 'open' event and you will have to apply to H.O.G. for the insurance.  (If it were members of a specific H.O.G. chapter only it would be automatic.)  We have done this in the past and it was not all that expensive - depends on the number of bikes you expect.  And it MUST be alcohol free or they won't touch it.

Here is a page for the handbook - 2008 version but I don't think it has changed.