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[skreminegul07]

Jerry,
   Just wondering.......would you do the same with a $35k/$40k Ford or Chevy pickup, or jam it up the dealers
you know what?

I have mixed feelings about your question. 
With a car, I would jam it down the dealer's throat as you described. 

When it comes to a motorcycle, this crap can kill you.  I'd rather do it myself.  The dealer's reply is "that's normal, they all do it"., even if it is a defect.

[tazmun]

I have mixed feelings about your question. 
With a car, I would jam it down the dealer's throat as you described. 

When it comes to a motorcycle, this crap can kill you.  I'd rather do it myself.  The dealer's reply is "that's normal, they all do it"., even if it is a defect.

I just have a hard time with this, and other issues with Harley. It seems in my eyes
that people will LIVE with problems with HD, and their STUPITY. When it comes to
other companies (car, motorcycles) they would, like me "stick it up there *ss.
Harley KNOWS they can get away with it BECAUSE owners LIVE with it!!!.
I BELIEVE if our atitudes change, so will the quality of the motorcycles.
I  know the YOUNGER generation will NEVER live with it, and if
HD wants to win them over, they have to change RFN!! Just my 2 cents.

[grc]

I just have a hard time with this, and other issues with Harley. It seems in my eyes
that people will LIVE with problems with HD, and their STUPITY. When it comes to
other companies (car, motorcycles) they would, like me "stick it up there *ss.
Harley KNOWS they can get away with it BECAUSE owners LIVE with it!!!. I BELIEVE if our atitudes change, so will the quality of the motorcycles.
I  know the YOUNGER generation will NEVER live with it, and if
HD wants to win them over, they have to change RFN!! Just my 2 cents.

I think you're preaching to the choir, tazmun, I've been saying the same thing for many years about H-D.  So far I don't see any evidence of change, since the dealerships still tend to be clueless for the most part and MoCo management is too busy counting their bonus money to worry about customer satisfaction.  Just as was the case in the auto industry, it's going to take something really earthshaking to make them change.  So far, I don't think the current downturn in their business is anywhere near enough to do the trick.

As for your earlier question, let me answer that with a question of my own.  If you knew that the so-called "techs" at your dealership were barely qualified to change oil, would you really want them messing with the wiring for your electronic throttle control?  Yes, we should take this stuff back to the dealer and make them fix it.  But after you go through that routine a few times and get your bike back in worse condition than before, or with several new scratches, what are you going to do?  And if your answer is to keep going back to "make them fix it", or to fix the damage they caused, I hope you have the patience of Job and a really tenacious attorney.  Oh, and btw, if your bike isn't showing any diagnostic codes, they aren't going to go in and do this stuff to the connectors anyway.  H-D doesn't pay them unless there is an obvious defect present.  Just checking stuff on the off chance that it may go bad isn't something they do.

Yes, take it back to the dealer if you want, or if you don't personally have the capability to perform the work yourself.  However, for those who have the capability, I've found it to be much less stressful to just fix the crap myself.  The MoCo isn't getting a free ride in my case, however.  They've received tons of negative advertising from me, and I've ceased spending any significant amount of cash with them or their dealers.  I've also publicly stated that I will never consider the purchase of another Harley unless I see a huge change in the quality of the bikes and in customer service.  That is the only way things will change, when enough folks quit handing them the money.


Jerry

[tazmun]

Jerry,
 That's what I want people to do. I've had a few Harley's, BUT
I will, like you NEVER buy another until they change. I have a
hard time with all the people here on the site complaining,
then they get a hard on when a new color, or an updated
model comes out. Seems all is "forgiven" until they have
problems, then it starts over, and "oh wait new color"...
 I just guess we're in the minority, who REALLY wants change!

[HOGMIKE]

I have a little mental list of pros and cons before I purchase an item.
It helps to sooth the savage soul when I am expecting the pros to outweigh the cons, and I find the reverse to be true after my purchase!
All I can say is: "I Warned myself, but, I didn't listen"!
'Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on ME"!
(Descartes)

 

[Black Diamond]

I just have a hard time with this, and other issues with Harley. It seems in my eyes
that people will LIVE with problems with HD, and their STUPITY. When it comes to
other companies (car, motorcycles) they would, like me "stick it up there *ss.
Harley KNOWS they can get away with it BECAUSE owners LIVE with it!!!.
I BELIEVE if our atitudes change, so will the quality of the motorcycles.
I  know the YOUNGER generation will NEVER live with it, and if
HD wants to win them over, they have to change RFN!! Just my 2 cents.

Speaking only for my own issues, I have taken the scooter back to the dealership, repeatedly. The SM and tech have been going crazy with some of my issues. They call Milwaukee to ask if these problems are surfacing around the country. MoCo plays dumb. After repeated calls to mother Harley, they will finally have someone in Milwaukee tell them to check something as it is a known problem area. eg. connectors corroding, tombstone tail light, cylinder sleeve movement.

In my case I feel my shop guys are trying but are stuck with Harley rules. Jerry's right, no codes / no problem.

That's why I bought a used scooter. I'm buying most of the parts I'm modifying her with from private parties, aftermarket instead of giving the MoCo a dime. I have written them a letter outlining all the problems on my 08. I know you will be surprised but I got no response. I do not see a new Harley in my future. Things will have to change significantly. FWIW

JW

[SBB]

Speaking only for my own issues, I have taken the scooter back to the dealership, repeatedly. The SM and tech have been going crazy with some of my issues. They call Milwaukee to ask if these problems are surfacing around the country. MoCo plays dumb. After repeated calls to mother Harley, they will finally have someone in Milwaukee tell them to check something as it is a known problem area. eg. connectors corroding, tombstone tail light, cylinder sleeve movement.

In my case I feel my shop guys are trying but are stuck with Harley rules. Jerry's right, no codes / no problem.

That's why I bought a used scooter. I'm buying most of the parts I'm modifying her with from private parties, aftermarket instead of giving the MoCo a dime. I have written them a letter outlining all the problems on my 08. I know you will be surprised but I got no response. I do not see a new Harley in my future. Things will have to change significantly. FWIW

JW

My thoughts exactly Jeff.
FWIW I had a plan to buy a 2013 110th Anniversary Screamin Eagle in silver black as my next bike, with the key word being "had".
I have an excellent dealer and will continue to support Harley Davidson of Charlotte every chance I get, but why support the Motor Company when they don't support me?
There are plenty of fine Screamin Eagle's I'd love to have and buying used doesn't bother me at all.

SBB


Although a larger garage will be needed! 

[sadunbar]

My thoughts exactly Jeff.
FWIW I had a plan to buy a 2013 110th Anniversary Screamin Eagle in silver black as my next bike, with the key word being "had".
I have an excellent dealer and will continue to support Harley Davidson of Charlotte every chance I get, but why support the Motor Company when they don't support me?
There are plenty of fine Screamin Eagle's I'd love to have and buying used doesn't bother me at all.

SBB


Although a larger garage will be needed! 

I think it will be a long time until I buy a new bike.  I may never buy a TBW bike - because they scare the crap out of me.  Like I told Chip, the only thing worse than limp mode is WFO mode.

[Chains]

Exactly Phil.  Similar issues were found with electrical connections and sensitive electronics in auto's decades ago, and measures were taken then to improve the materials and to seal the connections, and also pack the connections with dielectric compound as well.  Pull apart the connectors on your car or truck for the critical electronics in the engine management system, the ABS, the airbags, etc. and you will find these things. 

One of the things I don't understand is how H-D can constantly reinvent defects that were identified and fixed elsewhere 10 or 20 years earlier.  They don't actually invent any of this stuff, they sub most of it out to companies like Delphi for pete's sake.  Since Delphi is highly aware of the importance of any increased resistance in this type of circuit, I have to believe there are some other factors such as $$ that cause these problems to resurface.  Things like better quality pin and socket materials, connector seals, and dielectric compound cost more.  And even though they charge more for some of their motorcycles than car companies do for a modern 4 or 5 passenger car or SUV, H-D is obviously so inefficient that they have to scrimp on the important parts to maintain the profit margins.

I'd still like to know how this issue doesn't even deserve a real service bulletin, much less a recall.  Hiding this in a "Tech Tip" is ridiculous.  Especially after all the hoopla over Toyota's throttle control issues, someone at H-D needs to remove their head from their butt and finally become proactive. 


Jerry

Anytime you have Delphi or any other automotive company in the mix you are going to have issues.  Delphi is notorious for beating their good vendors down on price till they cannot make a profit then when all is said and done they move it to China or Mexico to get a lower cost.  I have personally dealt with the crazy people in these companies and they are relentless at screwing American companies out of their profit. Until things come full circle again you can count on crap from Mother Harley and all the others trying to make their shareholders happy.  What a shame for a $35,000 bike to have electrical problems in 2010.

[SBB]

Here's a ironic note.

http://shine.yahoo.com/event/travel/7-worst-roads-in-america-1229355/

I had never been to Louisiana till the end of last month and I was on both of the roads listed above as #1 and #2 worst roads in America.

And the dealer asked me if I had been on any rough roads because that could cause the connectors to have an issue.

                                              

SBB

[sadunbar]

Here's a ironic note.

http://shine.yahoo.com/event/travel/7-worst-roads-in-america-1229355/

I had never been to Louisiana till the end of last month and I was on both of the roads listed above as #1 and #2 worst roads in America.

And the dealer asked me if I had been on any rough roads because that could cause the connectors to have an issue.

                                              

SBB

Logic dictates there will be a product notification issued by the MOCO listing which roads are acceptable and which roads are unacceptable for TBW model motorcycles.  Maybe the GPS units can be pre-programmed with this information so GPS created routes can avoid unacceptable roads.....    

[Black Diamond]

Logic dictates there will be a product notification issued by the MOCO listing which roads are acceptable and which roads are unacceptable for TBW model motorcycles.  Maybe the GPS units can be pre-programmed with this information so GPS created routes can avoid unacceptable roads.....    

Damn...now I have to buy a GPS from mother Harley! 

[grc]

Perhaps you guys with TBW should all get together and contact Willy and the boys about a free suspension upgrade, so their cheap wiring won't leave you stranded.  Or maybe along with rubber mounting the engine, they need to rubber mount the electrical connectors.

You've got to start thinking outside the box, folks.  Trying to find only smooth roads is going to put a major damper on your riding, since many/most localities don't have the money to properly fix potholes, much less repave worn out roads.  I'm all for the upgraded suspension myself.  Hey Willy, if you're reading this what do you say?


Jerry

[SIX38]

I decided to be proactive about this issue, because in the end we all end up making changes and improvements to our Harley's that make the bikes better.
 I took apart the connector, put on my magnifying lenses and inspected the pins and sockets. They appear to be gold plated, looked in pretty good shape, although there was a small amount of silt inside the housing. (I did an awful lot of riding in the rain last year.) I cleaned everthing with alcohol and swabs, packed connector with electrical contact grease and reassembled. I noticed some wear to the bottom of the ECM where the caddy tension clips contact the ECM so I added some closed cell neoprene gasket tape to cushion it in the mounting caddy. Then I wrapped the connector with Loctite Insulating & Sealing Tape #1212164 (great item to have in your emergency tool kit) to keep water from getting into connector. Finally I made sure that the wiring harness was securely fastened to the frame with ty-wraps to prevent movement at the connector. I hope all this helps.
 The never ending product improvement done not by the MOCO but us owners goes on, which shows the value of CVOHARLEY. Thanks for the heads up SBB.
Tom P.

http://www.henkelna.com/us/content_data/103643_loctite_insulating_sealing_wrap_sell_sheet_final.pdf

[southtxcruiser]

well chitt.... atleast i know how to reset the dam thing now...... on run and cycle it four times ehhh.... hope i can remember that..