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[CVO FF]

I am the proud owner of a 2010 CVO Ultra and plan to add Rhinehart slip-ons on the stock pipes and system. Coming from my Vance & Hines big radius on a Fatboy this will be a change for me. Dealer tells me I need to add airbox change and fuel module. I do not wish to make other changes to stock at this time unless absolutely necessary.  I thought all was needed was to re-tune the existing computer since I am keeping everything else stock. I`ve gained a lot of information from reading this site. Any advice would be appreciated.

[DESERTBEAR54]

Yea open up that intake and have a SERT installed and have the fuel fattened up and she will run good for you. I got rid of my lowers and installed a HB intake filter on my 08 SEUC. I just went over 45,000 miles and have kept everthing stock except for the CVR Slip-on's,HB Intake and a SERT. Much cooler also. I can sit at a light here in Arizona for 10 min's and she run's nice and cool. I had Rinharts on her originally but when I heard the CFR's I switched over. Enjoy the new bike!!

[Diamondback]

 

If all you want to do is change the pipes to Rinehart's, you don't need to do anything to the bike except change them out.

THe big changes come when the restrictive cat is removed and the somewhat restrictive Air cleaner is replaced with a true high flow unit.  Changing the cat out and the AC does require a new fuel management system such as Mastertune TTS, PC V with autotune, or HD's own SSERT.

But just for the pipes, change them and enjoy.

 

[CVO FF]

Thanks for the info. I am going with just the mufflers at this time. I thought the dealar was handing me a line to drive parts sales. Gotta save some loot to open her up later.

[5.56mm]

If all you want to do is change the pipes to Rinehart's, you don't need to do anything to the bike except change them out.

THe big changes come when the restrictive cat is removed and the somewhat restrictive Air cleaner is replaced with a true high flow unit.  Changing the cat out and the AC does require a new fuel management system such as Mastertune TTS, PC V with autotune, or HD's own SSERT.

But just for the pipes, change them and enjoy.

 

Can you explain why you recommand the PCV WITH the Autotuner?   The PCV tuned by a good tuner would be IMO the best choice.  What do you think Diamondback?

[Diamondback]

 

The primary reason for the autotune is to continually adjust the parameters of the bike relative to air tem, humidity, altitude variations in altitude and variations in grades of gasoline.  I had the SSERT on my 07 and the bike ran great in San Antonio and terrible on my yearly trip for 14 days in the Pacific mountains.  If the high altitude was above 85 the bike pinged like crazy and had no power (and ran very hot).  Lower grade gasoline didn't help and I even had to use Octane Boost.

Any way, after many trips (at the dealerships cost) to "tune the bike", I bought the TMAT from Zippers and for the next 20,000 miles the bike didn't care where I was or the conditions.  It ran great.

That said, when I got the 09 it was very hot in March, it came with the SSERT (and a tune) and I decided to change it out to a wide band system.  TMAT wasn't available and thus I went with the PC V with autotune.  This bike has over 12,000 on the PC V with auto and I have had absolutely no issues at all.  It will easily outrun my stock CVO buddies.  Only one TTS in my area on a 96 ci.  So it's not a fair comparison.  I haven't had it tuned at all,just a good base map from Fuel Moto and the autotune took over.  I have ridden the 09 in 8500 in snow and dropped down into the desert at over 95 with no issues at all in the same day (eastern Arizone on 191).  Cold, hot high altitude, low humidity high humidity, bikes runs great.  I get better gas mileage and have more power than my CVO buddies (except for the two that went with the PC V also).

I like a closed loop system and that is what I get. 

That said the TTS is a good choice also.  But if you need to cool the bike down you have to set the AFR outside the NB sensors range and run the bike in an open loop mode.  As you can tell on this site, the TTS is very popular and performs well. 

 

[5.56mm]

Wow!  Thank you very much Diamondback for the awesome and detailed explanations. Very appreciated!

But, I won't pretend that I understood the last part of your explanations:
That said the TTS is a good choice also.  But if you need to cool the bike down you have to set the AFR outside the NB sensors range and run the bike in an open loop mode.  As you can tell on this site, the TTS is very popular and performs well. 

If I could abuse more of your time, I think a lot of people here could benefit from your knowledge.

Again, thanks for your help!!!

[CVOStreetglide]

Thanks for the info. I am going with just the mufflers at this time. I thought the dealar was handing me a line to drive parts sales. Gotta save some loot to open her up later.

I am running Reinharts on my 2010 CVO Street Glide and NO ECM changes were needed. However, it will take a few rides to allow the stock ECM to adjust to the less restrictive exhaust so you may hear some popping under hard decelleration for a few rides. Also the stock baffles are quiet and need to "cure" a little before they get louder.

[Diamondback]

 

OK.  Here goes,basically the TTS uses the stock NB sensor which measure the AFR output from the bike (IE in the exhaust).  The HD sensors are called NB narrow band because there effective range of measuring AFR is 14.3 to 14.7.  In essence, the TTS (and HD ECM)must use this narrow paremeter to keep the AFR in this range at what is called steady state throttle (idle, moderate acceleration and cruising) closed loop. When you acrylate the ECM allows the AFR (which allows more fuel to the engine which makes more power) to override the NB sensors and enrich the AFR to around 12.1 or so.  When you reach your cruising steady state the ECM/TTS sets the AFR to the stochastically efficient 14.7 (or close).  This however is referred to running the engine "lean" which correlates to lots of "heat" and some potential 'Pinging" which then detunes the engine to stop pinging.  As a theoretical rule this would burn more of the fuel (thus meeting the EPA strict requirements) and supposedly get more fuel mileage.

TTS can override the AFR rating at any setting (say idle to 13.3) to en richen the fuel mix and cool the engine.  Anything outside the 14.3 to 14.7 is outside the parameters and is referred to as Open Loop (which is the way almost all of the pre-07 bikes ran).  In my opinion this defeats the purpose of the sensors and eliminates them from the mix.

The PC V with autotune replaces the NB with "wide band" sensors that measure AFR from around 10 to 20 (dint remember exact spec's but you get the idea).  You Can run the PC V at any of the AFR ranges as you like but most of set the max AFR to around 13.8 to en richen the engine, to get more power and a lot less heat.  And supposedly "worse" gas mileage.  With my two CVO's the addition a less restrictive exhaust (and no cat) and the Stage I AC coupled with the PC V yielded tons more power and torque and in fact better gas mileage not worse.   The bike was easier to ride, throttle response was dramatically improved and there was so much torque the two gas mileage was better than single before.

That said the TTS solution generally yields higher gas mileage from most of the users here. It is a good solution and very popular.

Hope this helps.  This is the simple answer to a complex problem.

 

[5.56mm]

Again Diamondback, thanks so much for your time and yes, your explanations were very helpful for me and I know that's the case for a lot of people here!

I'm still waiting for my FLHTCUSE5 (mid june    )  )  and I wanna go with the PCV for sure.  Now that I know that it is better to go also with autotune, Do you think I still should have my bike tuned by a tuner?

And, do you really think that the autotuner will perfectly tune my bike even if I download a basic map?

Thanks!

[Diamondback]

 

No doubt a good tuner can provide a better overall map than the good basic and aututoune.  The better the map you start with the better the autuotune will perform.

However, mine was so close after 5000 miles my tuner didn't think it was worth the money for a very small improvement.  About 400 dollars and maybe a few hp and ft-lbs of torque.

I left it alone.

But a lot would have spent the  money.

 

Ride safe

[5.56mm]

Now I believe I have enough infos to make a good decision.

Thank you very much!