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[jesse111]

Final numbers are hp 98 and torque 112 (CF: SAE smoothing 4).

I’m telling the numbers up front because let’s face it, that’s what we all want to know.

If those numbers don’t impress you, then the rest of this 3 page review may bore you. If you’re interested in why I am satisfied with the results… read on.

I stayed at the Holiday Inn express which was very nice, reasonable and just 2 or 3 miles from Doc’s. As I rounded the corner in to the parking lot at Doc’s place, I was greeted with a smile and a wave to ride the bike right in the bay. If your shy around people you better get over that. Doc is all about open communication and will tell it like it is. He’s got a great sense of humor and makes you feel right at home. He’ll answer any question and offer options and solutions if necessary based on his enormous experience and expertise.

As he began the tune on Thursday CVORick from the forum showed up to hang out with us and observe this tune. I didn’t realize it at the time but his presence would turn out to be an enormous blessing in my very near future.

As the tune progressed Doc began to notice some unique anomalies appearing on the dyno. I’m not going to explain the technicals of the matter but tuning the Fullsac proved to require unusual compensatory adjustments. It can be done and Doc can do it for sure. It was however, a personal choice of mine whether to continue or not. Doc would be the one to contact for further information on this.

I was not aware that the inside diameter of the Fullsac at the exhaust port was only 1.5 inches or so. However, in order to make a stepped header 1.75 at the muffler end, you would have to begin with 1.5 at the port end. This is what Fullsac has done. Apparently it works pretty good in many applications. Some individuals are showing some mighty fine numbers. I felt a significant increase myself when I replaced my stock gear with it. So they are without a doubt a vast improvement power wise over stock. And of course, you can use the Fullsac cores and any other 1.75 muffler with this design without any adapter, so there are advantages.

I decided however to switch over to a larger pipe diameter. This would leave my future open for any performance level of engine mods I might choose to do. I thought about the V&H power duals. It is certainly a quality pipe and looks excellent. Rick has them and is getting great performance out of them. He has the Fullsac cores and they sound great.

I thought about the Fuel Moto Stainless Xpipe but I had only one day to make a purchase. Doc’s time frame as well as mine were quite narrow.

I began looking closely at the Rinehart True Dual Xtreme. These headers are mandrel bent, stepped from 1.75 at the port to 2” at the muffler end and they are ceramic coated. Their look is a matter of preference. Personally, I love the appearance. They have a beefy aggressive look about them that adds ruggedness to the refined appearance of the CVO Ultra. I also like how both pipes slant back similar to the softail design. I’ve always preferred that look over the forward curve design. This stylistic counter balance works for me. I love mixing old and new in a tasteful fashion.

Since they are true duals the rear pipe maintains it’s full diameter as it routes under the bike to the left side. I kinda like that. So I decided to make the purchase. (No price break. Full MSRP. Not cheap!)

This is where the blessing of CVORick’s presence manifested itself. This guy offered (I did not even have a chance to ask first) to go 2 hours one way to Destination Daytona and pick this gear up for me and bring it back next day. If Rick had not been there with a willing spirit, I would have had quite the challenge working all this out. So he went, checked out the kit to ensure all the parts were there and returned Friday. Thanks Rick. You're one cool dude.

Friday morning Rick and I began installing the kit using Doc’s tools and bay area while Doc tended to his Friday tune appointment. The attitude in the garage and desire to work together made this whole ordeal really a lot of fun. We spent the day working and having a good time. Rick and I would only make fun of Doc when he was in the dyno well out of earshot. After all, my tune wasn’t done yet.

[jesse111]

Every once in awhile Doc would come out and examine our install progress. I took credit for all the good stuff and blamed Rick for all the mistakes. That’s why when Doc would come out and ask “Who did this part?” I’d first have find out if it was good or bad before answering.

Truth is, Doc has tricks and techniques to ensure proper seating of the exhaust and I learned a lot even with something as “simple” as an exhaust install. It was very reassuring to have a pro looking over your shoulder.

After the install of this magnificent exhaust system, we fired it up. Yep, they’re Rinehart’s alright. Nothing sounds like a Rinehart. I had them on my 08 RK with their old style true duals. Music to my ears then, and sound even better to me now. I originally was looking for something quieter than Rinehart’s. But to tell you the truth, at cruising speed they sound great. Idle and decel give me chicken skin. However, if you get on it, well… you know what happens when you throw down on a Rinehart system… it’s all business.

So in to the dyno we go with the Xtreme duals two days later than my original appointment. The first thing I notice is there is no decel popping. Even before the tune, the Rineharts had eliminated all decel popping. This was obviously a quality exhaust and was proving itself to us from the word go.

You would have to talk to Doc as to the actually tuning challenges but it seemed as if he was having fun tuning these Rineharts. I felt that things were reasonably predictable for him with no extreme anomalies or unusual surprises.

As Doc meticulously tuned my bike it just kept sounding better and better. He does not rush. Bring your laptop or reading material because you’re going to be there awhile. There’s water and soft drinks in the fridge and an air-conditioned office with TV and wireless internet for you. Or, you can watch the dyno through a window.

Doc informed me that he was not fully satisfied with the numbers you see above. More on that in a moment.

But he was done with the tune and now it’s time to for a test ride.

THE TEST RIDE -

The first thing I noticed was the engine started easier and quicker with much less effort. The actual take off from a dead stop is also noticeably easier. As I released the clutch the bike rolled out from a stop with noticeable smoothness. I knew at that moment something good had happened to my bike.

As I took her out on the road, it was like a different engine. Smooth is the best word. From take off to acceleration to decel, everything was smooth. I went to the top of the hill around the corner from Docs, wound out 4 gear and let the gravity drag me down to 1500 rpm to test for any decel pop issues and there were none. Not one. Oh happy day.

Acceleration through the gears is like honey.  She winds up like a sewing machine.

Since leaving Doc’s I did a 7-hour ride to Woodstock Georgia for the Traxxion install. That is where I am at the time of this writing.

I have all the torque I need and at 65 mph I can twist the throttle and off she goes.

After two full tanks, my fuel mileage has apparently increased an average of 2.5 mpg to about 40. I'll do more testing on the way back to NC to confirm my exact hwy mileage.

More power and better economy - now that's a combination I can appreciate.

Doc seems convinced the 110 engine requires head work to breath efficiently. The 54 cam I installed did in fact increase power but the heads appear to be stifling it's true capability. Apparently, Harley has designed the 110 to produce some nice torque but has sacrificed HP. Why? … Perhaps Emissions? Noise? Maybe both.

Docs viewpoint of restrictive heads is supported by two dynos that I personally know of. Both 110 engines installed the Woods T7 cam which is bigger than the 54. However, both engines are producing less power than the 54. It should be the opposite.

You can’t knock down a brick wall with a tennis ball. Throwing a basketball at it won’t help. It’s just harder the throw.

[jesse111]

Apparently, the 110 can easily be over cam’d as Doc warned me about. If you do over cam it, it responds with power loss, not gain. All things considered, I agree with Doc’s findings that to realize the potential of the 110 (especially with large cams) head work is a necessity. Both the cat in the exhaust and the heads appear to be severe restrictive points in the 110.

I think the 54 might be all the cam the 110 can take without head work. But I suspect it too would certainly show improvement with even a minimal amount of head work.

As for the infatuation with numbers that some folks have… consider this.

I was watching drag racing the other day. The winning qtr mile speed was a little over 290 mph. The loser was just over 300. Both left the line virtually simultaneously as far as my eyes could see. I don’t live and die by numbers. To me numbers are reference information. Numbers can’t tell you what I feel when I ride this bike after Doc’s tune.

So there it is. With good exhaust, good intake, the Andrews 54 and a truly professional tune from Doc you’ll get good economy, cooler temps and significantly more QUALITY power over stock. Those were my primary goals when I set out on this modification/tune and that is what I got.

Could you do better with some other cam or the 251 or maybe even the stock 255? Perhaps in some rpm ranges. But I honestly believe that without proper head work, we’re just splitting hairs at this point.

Doc says the 54 runs cooler than the 255. That alone is worth the swap to me. I might gain or lose a ft-lb or two from one cam or exhaust vs. another… but the way I feel riding this bike now... I couldn’t care less.

Some good advice might be to contact Doc before you build. Know what you’re getting in to. Match your components. But don’t just call to pick his brain. Hire him to do the work or the tune. If you don’t hire him, then demand that he give you his paypal address and send him some money for his advice. It’s the fair thing to do.

Finally, let me say that Doc’s wife Elizabeth is just a delight (you got a good one there Doc). They’re both wonderful spiritual people and I enjoyed their company very much. If you decide to hire Doc to do your tune, be sure and get the address of the local Mexican restaurant for lunch. Get the chicken chipotle burrito there. Then get the address of the Japanese Sushi restaurant for dinner and get the teriyaki salmon bento there (it’s not raw). You will not believe how good that sushi dinner is.

Thanks Doc and Elizabeth.

[CVORick]

Just wish I had been able to stay Saturday and see your face after the test ride.  Now I have to start saving for a cam and head work.   Isn't it great when a plan comes together.  Doc is definitely the man. Ride Safe.

[SCRM-R]

Great summary!  More kudos for Doc...

[Mr. Wizard]

If I had known you were just up the street today Jessie, I'd joined you for a bit.

Good to hear that you got Doc to get that tune done right.

[SBB]

Docs viewpoint of restrictive heads is supported by two dynos that I personally know of. Both 110 engines installed the Woods T7 cam which is bigger than the 54. However, both engines are producing less power than the 54. It should be the opposite.

Jessie, it appears that your based in North Carolina.

Come on up to "Screamin @ New River Gorge" http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=43289.0 and I will show you the tailights of a 110 with a Woods TW7H.

Long post and glossy dyno sheets mean nothing once the grip is twisted.

SBB

 

[Doc 1]

Jessie, it appears that your based in North Carolina.

Come on up to "Screamin @ New River Gorge" http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=43289.0 and I will show you the tail lights of a 110 with a Woods TW7H.

Long post and glossy dyno sheets mean nothing once the grip is twisted.

SBB

 

After your done with Jessie come to Florida and I will show you the tail lights of a 103'' with a woods TW8.....that is if you have a set of field glasses...

[SBB]

After your done with Jessie come to Florida and I will show you the tail lights of a 103'' with a woods TW8.....that is if you have a set of field glasses...

Chit no Doc, I know better.
But someone bashing another cam just because they are satisfied with theirs only shows a lack of respect or knowledge of other products.
Your history preceeds you, you could put a Woods cam in a Buell Blast and I'd be toast.
And that I don't need a set of field glasses for!

 

SBB

[CVORick]

Chit no Doc, I know better.
But someone bashing another cam just because they are satisfied with theirs only shows a lack of respect or knowledge of other products.
Your history preceeds you, you could put a Woods cam in a Buell Blast and I'd be toast.
And that I don't need a set of field glasses for!

 

SBB

After meeting Jesse, I doubt he was "bashing" the Woods cams or being "disrespectful", just giving his opinion based on his experience.  That what happens on a forum.  You evidently have a different experience and it is respected.  I enjoy reading your post.  Hope I get to meet you also on one of my trips up to North Carolina.  You have been a great resource for me.

[SBB]

After meeting Jesse, I doubt he was "bashing" the Woods cams or being "disrespectful", just giving his opinion based on his experience.  That what happens on a forum.  You evidently have a different experience and it is respected.  I enjoy reading your post.  Hope I get to meet you also on one of my trips up to North Carolina.  You have been a great resource for me.

What can I say to a man that has one of the best looking 10th Anniversary CVO's ever built?
Other than "Good Taste in bikes!"
Experience to me is just that, it's not based on what you have heard.
I did a lot of research on cams before I made my choice but nowhere on this great site will you find me saying anything negative about the 54.
Regardless of the outcome I'd rather confirm my decision by twisting the throttle.
That's something I enjoy doing, the 09 turned over 32K miles coming back from Panama City on Sunday.

SBB



And BTW, would enjoy seeing you at New River Gorge!
Can you make that happen?

[jesse111]

Chit no Doc, I know better.
But someone bashing another cam just because they are satisfied with theirs only shows a lack of respect or knowledge of other products.
Your history preceeds you, you could put a Woods cam in a Buell Blast and I'd be toast.
And that I don't need a set of field glasses for!

 

SBB

I believe you have missed the point my friend. Check your emotions and listen up. No disrespect or bashing was in the least bit ever intended in my post. The fact that you focus on that one point out of all the information in my review and misconstrue it and take it personally, leads me to believe you are quite fond of your Woods cams. Hey, that's OK. But look closely at my review and you'll find I am expressing surprise at the lower numbers of Woods cams and also explain my belief as to why. To quote myself...

"Both 110 engines installed the Woods T7 cam which is bigger than the 54. However, both engines are producing less power than the 54. It should be the opposite."

The above quote is my honest observation. And yes I honestly believe it should be the opposite. I clearly state the T7 should be outperforming the 54 and that the blame lies squarely on the HD stock heads. My intent is clearly to emphasize the shortcomings of the stock heads. My only personal reference are the Woods cams.

In large part this experience has taught me that building an engine requires balance in component choice. I feel it's beneficial for others to understand that. I'm not suggesting I've found the perfect balance as I state in the closing remarks of my review. To quote myself again...

"I might gain or lose a ft-lb or two from one cam or exhaust vs. another… but the way I feel riding this bike now... I couldn’t care less."

SBB, are you suggesting that larger cams in the stock 110 will overcome the head issue I discuss in my post? If so, then by all means discuss your findings and opinions in a way we can all benefit from. That's what this forum is all about isn't it? If you can post big numbers with a T7 and stock heads then please do. I know 2 riders that will want to talk with you and find out how you got them.

I'm sure you'll agree that no benefit will come from hasty accusations. If you have an opinion or evidence different from mine, then share it. But name calling and bravado chest pounding won't accomplish much good.

As regards the "twist of the throttle" you mention. You're preaching to the choir on that one. That is another one of my main points. My numbers are 98 and 112 and yet I have all the power I can stand. On this point we certainly agree.

Do you live in Matthews NC? I have all my bike work done at Harley of Charlotte in Matthews. Next time I'm up there what say we grab a cup of coffee. You'll find I have no intent to bash any one or any thing. But I might take you up on that tail light race challenge just for the heck of it. It might prove rather interesting. Loser buys the beer?  

[CVORick]

And BTW, would enjoy seeing you at New River Gorge!
Can you make that happen?

Will see what I can do.  Would like to meet everyone.  Leaving for Maine in mid August with a couple of friends from North Carolina as the start of our 4 Points ride. Have to either cross or pass West Virginia.  Would be a real pleasure to see everyone.  See what I can work out.

[SBB]

On this point we certainly agree.

Do you live in Matthews NC? I have all my bike work done at Harley of Charlotte in Matthews. Next time I'm up there what say we grab a cup of coffee. You'll find I have no intent to bash any one or any thing. But I might take you up on that tail light race challenge just for the heck of it. It might prove rather interesting. Loser buys the beer?  

Let me know when your coming down and we can meet and do a little test run!
That's why we have the bikes, to take them down the road.

SBB

[SBB]

Will see what I can do.  Would like to meet everyone.  Leaving for Maine in mid August with a couple of friends from North Carolina as the start of our 4 Points ride. Have to either cross or pass West Virginia.  Would be a real pleasure to see everyone.  See what I can work out.

Cool Rick!

Look forward to meeting you!

SBB