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[pmille17]

WHEN I BOUGHT A NEW O7 STREETGIDE THE DEALER TOLD ME I HAD TO BUY A RACE TUNER TO CHANGE THE EXHAUST . I DIDN'T BUY IT . MY LOGIC WAS THAT IF THEY PUT AN O2 SENSOR ON THIS BIKE  WON'T IT TUNE ITSELF   SO I PUT ON MY EXHAUST , DROVE THE BIKE AROUND 100 MILES THEN TOOK IT TO HD OF INDIANAPOLIS AND PUT IT ON THE DYNO . THE LEANEST SPOT WAS 14.3 to 1 . **** FAST-FORWARD TO SUMMER 2007 , I HAD TO HAVE A NEW COPPER AND BLACK 105th annv. ROAD KING CLASSIC . I PUT THE SAME LOUD S.E. PIPES ON IT AND IT RAN GREAT FOR 3 YEARS . I NEVER DYNOED THIS BIKE BUT THE PIPES BARELY CHANGED COLOR . **** FAST-FORWARD AGAIN TO APRIL 2010 - I TRADED FOR THIS NEW S.E. GLIDE . WHICH BRINGS ME TO THIS QUESTION .....          HAS ANYONE PUT PIPES AND SLIP-ONS WITH OUT A RACETUNER ?  DID IT ADAPT LIKE MY PREVIOUS BIKES DID ?
































88

[GregKhougaz]

Welcome, pmille17.  When you have some time, feel free to intro yourself in the New Member Introduction board.  

A short answer here would be that lots of folks have changed muffs without a tuner.  A closed loop system will adjust below 4,000 but there is little to adjust when the cat is so restrictive.  Take a look at the Intake/Exhaust/ECM
section for some great information.  

BTW, nice ride!       

[mjb765]

All I Can say is that as soon as I installed the tuner the bike ran better and cooler..and that was before I had the cat removed.

[Wheelsnkeels]

No tuner needed.
It will compensate and adjust to run at the same lean factory settings as the installed base map,

However with any of the fuel/ignition syetems it can be made to run as much as 90* cooler by adjusting it richer and adj the timing appropriately.

I've added V&H Head pipes (no Cat) and After market pipes. 2,000 miles and no tuner or problems.

This month however I am adding a SSERT as I plan to also install aftermarket cams

[grc]

This subject has been cussed and discussed many times before, but the posts above this one give you the gist of the situation.  Yes, the bikes with O² sensors can adjust for minor changes in air flow through the engine, intake or exhaust.  So while the bike may not run any leaner than stock, assuming the changes are within the range of adjustment built in to the system, it won't run any better either.

I guess if the entire exercise is just aimed at making more noise with an exhaust change, and you don't care if the bike runs better, then you will be good to go.  Of course, you will forfeit the improved performance, driveability, and reduced operating temps that would result from tuning.  And that last item, temps, isn't just about making the rider more comfortable. 


Jerry

[Steve Cole]

So how did the dealer test your old bikes? My guess would be they put them on the dyno if they had one and ran a full throttle test only. If that's the case the stock bike runs about 12.8.1 AFR so your did indeed changed a lot from that. So is 14.3 OK and there in lies the problem. Without knowing where in the operating range that is it could be just fine or it could be way lean.

A stock bike will correct the mixture by about 15 - 18% and then it's at it's limit. The other issue is that it can only correct in a few areas so the resst of the areas are out of wack. Some feel that OK and since it there bike that's all that counts but I can tell you that once you have been on a bike that has been properly tune you will know the difference right away.

[pmille17]

THANKS WHEELSNKEELS !      DID YOU PICK UP ANY POWER ?     ONE OF THE OTHER REPLIES SAID THAT I WOULDN'T PICK ANY POWER WITH A FULL EXHAUST SYSTEM .      YOU HAVE THE SET OF PIPES I WANT TO GET.             I MIGHT GO WITH SOME DIFFERENT SLIP-ONS .          I WAS HOPING TO HEAR FROM SOMEONE THAT HAD THEIR BIKE SNIFFED ON THE DYNO .       THANKS AGAIN !

[pmille17]

STEVE COLE --- THEY RECORDED THE AIR / FUEL MIXTURE IN 500 RPM INCREMENTS .    THE LEANEST WAS 14.3    MOSTLY IN THE 13s THOUGH  . THE PRINTOUT THEY GAVE ME SAID AROUND 14.1 to 1 WAS PREFFERED  BY THE MOTOR CO.  THE POWER INCREASE WAS AROUND 7 HP AND SOUNDED GREAT

[HOGMIKE]

STEVE COLE --- THEY RECORDED THE AIR / FUEL MIXTURE IN 500 RPM INCREMENTS .    THE LEANEST WAS 14.3    MOSTLY IN THE 13s THOUGH  . THE PRINTOUT THEY GAVE ME SAID AROUND 14.1 to 1 WAS PREFFERED  BY THE MOTOR CO.  THE POWER INCREASE WAS AROUND 7 HP AND SOUNDED GREAT

Pretty close, maybe a tad on the rich side?
I could live with your AFR's
Check your gas mileage over a tank of gas.
The bike "sounded great"......how did it run? Got good manners? Good power throughout? Good roll-on?
Think of "real world" running, not just "sound".
A good tune and exhaust will show your 7HP gain....just about normal.
JMHO

[Firefly]

I installed slip-ons w/o adding a tuner as well. However, I do believe that we would see power gains by adding one. Now if I could just sort through which one to choose

[Doc 1]

STEVE COLE --- THEY RECORDED THE AIR / FUEL MIXTURE IN 500 RPM INCREMENTS .    THE LEANEST WAS 14.3    MOSTLY IN THE 13s THOUGH  . THE PRINTOUT THEY GAVE ME SAID AROUND 14.1 to 1 WAS PREFFERED  BY THE MOTOR CO.  THE POWER INCREASE WAS AROUND 7 HP AND SOUNDED GREAT

  ......But this is only my opinion
Doc

[Steve Cole]

Pretty close, maybe a tad on the rich side?
I could live with your AFR's
Check your gas mileage over a tank of gas.
The bike "sounded great"......how did it run? Got good manners? Good power throughout? Good roll-on?
Think of "real world" running, not just "sound".
A good tune and exhaust will show your 7HP gain....just about normal.
JMHO

I understand they recorded mixture in 500 RPM increments but most likely they only did WOT which does not get corrected by the stock closed loop system. Only part throttle is corrected by the O2 sensors. Like I said before as long as your happy that's all that counts but I think if you to were ride one that was just add-ons with no tune versus one that was tuned you would not want the non tuned version.

[DABB]

I am running slip ons with no tuner currently.  Seems to run fine.  I am installing a SERT and doing a certain exhaust mod simply to get the heat down.  I can cook an egg on my right leg while riding.  Will it run better after I get this done, I shall see.  But right now I do not know any difference as I have nothing to compare to.

[lonewolf55]

......But this is only my opinion
Doc

I know what your saying.

[grc]

I am running slip ons with no tuner currently.  Seems to run fine.  I am installing a SERT and doing a certain exhaust mod simply to get the heat down.  I can cook an egg on my right leg while riding.  Will it run better after I get this done, I shall see.  But right now I do not know any difference as I have nothing to compare to.

And there's the answer.  As long as people do stuff to the bike and don't see or feel an obvious negative effect, or have something to make a direct comparison to, they make an assumption that everything is just fine.  Funny thing though, I have yet to see a single soul come back after having their bike tuned properly and say they wished they hadn't done so.

The older models without the feedback system would tell you right away if your mods screwed anything up.  The fact that the new models can at least partially compensate for minor changes has made it less obvious.  But the fact remains that the stock setup is designed to let H-D squeeze by the emissions and sound regulations, and is not optimized for best driveability and performance.  Even with no changes to pipes, air cleaners, etc., a good tune will make a significant difference in how the bikes run.


Jerry