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[nazzz46]

Multimillion dollar pay and perks up the wazoo for the executives are perfectly acceptable, but decent pay and benefits for the working stiff is somehow causing the downfall of America?  I don't think so.  The middle class worker created the economy that was the envy of the world, and the privileged few are destroying it quite rapidly thanks to the "greed is good" philosophy and the morons in Washington who let it happen.

H-D management is looking out strictly for H-D management.  Just like at York, if they can intimidate the folks in Milwaukee into giving up everything they've worked for over the past 30 years then management can just pat themselves on the back as they increase their own pay and benefits.  And don't forget, their ultimatums at York and now in Milwaukee also included targeting the local politicians, as in give us all kinds of abatements and other goodies or we'll leave your economy high and dry.  So not only are the union workers getting the shaft, the local taxpayers who have to make up the difference will also get to grab their ankles.  Harley has a history of expecting others to fix their self induced problems.  Look at the 1980's for instance.  Can't build a competitive product, so talk the government into slapping import duties on the much better bikes from overseas.  Didn't help the quality of the bikes, but it cost those of us who bought bikes from other companies that actually had a clue a lot of extra money.

As far as I'm concerned they can take their greedy no quality butts over to China.  And not just manufacturing but the whole corporation.  That way they could save on the shipping costs for all the cheap Chinese parts, and they would have a huge domestic market that is used to getting junk for products.  Should be a perfect match.


Jerry

Jerry i tend to agree with you to a certain point once they bust the union wage and set up shop in an area with a lower standard of living ie less benefits for the workers a lower pay scale, That savings will never be seen on the showroom floor it will only shine on the privileged few know as management, owners, and  executives enuff said

[starvin]

Just saw on the local news that they reached an agreement with the union to keep the plants where they are. Vote will happen Sept. 13th. Don't know any other details.

[2smoke]

The Union will vote "yes" on the new contract.  Here is why:  people on layoff up to 2 years can vote on the contract.  In this new proposal is a $12,000 bonus for people laid off to waive their recall rights.  These people know there is no chance of being recalled anytime soon.  And even if they are recalled in lets say 5 years, will the company even be around anymore?  So if you are sitting around with no job and your car is going to be repo'd and your house is going into foreclosure that $12,000 (plus another $1,000 signing bonus) looks pretty good.  There are over 500 people in this situation(currently laid-off from Milwaukee H-D).  I know many of them personally.  Sad situation. 

[sadunbar]

Interesting perspective to this article....

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/102662844.html

[FNGw/08SERK]

Interesting perspective to this article....

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/102662844.html

Nice find Scott 

[Maladjusted]

As much as I love Harley Davidson, I don't agree with the 1.5 mil salaries and 6 + mil bonus structure for Senior Executives.  Capitalism is based on free market and talent driving income, but come on... these bastards at the tops of these companies (AIG, ENRON, GM, Ford, Fidelity Investments and hundreds of others that have struggled over the past 3 years) are bleeding these companies dry.   I have a Senior Management position for a "quasi" government financial agency.  We don't have 7 digit salaries, nor 500%+ bonus structures.

Gov't intervention is not the answer.

Mal

[Sklywag]

Sounds like you were on drugs having a fantasy 

[cahdbiker]

serghaven, Last thursday Sept 9th. I went for a ride to Santa Barbara, Ca.  HD( about 65 miles from where I live in Simi Valley, CA.),  because I heard a rumor that they were closing. I couldn't believe it because they have been in operation for many many years, and actually have a shop in the  city of Santa Barbara, and another a little south near Carpenteria Ca. right on the coast. I have a dealership about 6 miles from my house and two other dealerships about 14 miles from my house in opposite directions.  I asked one of the salespeople at Santa Barbara Ca. why they were closing and he said they were doing great business, but one of the owner's wanted out and HD refused to approve other investors who wanted in. He went on to say that HD wants to close 10 dealerships in Ca. My local dealership is doing great and their inventory is moving well ( I go in there every week and I can see what has sold and what is still sitting there, they did have a purple Fat Boy that sat their for about 4 months) The people working there are courteous, very knowledgeable, always call you by your name and my experience there has been great before and after I bought my 09SEUC which I got in August of 08. We have a lot of dealerships in the Los Angeles area, but if the salesperson was telling me the truth why would they want to close a very longterm well established shop with a good reputation? Has anyone else heard of anthing like this in your area? CAHDBIKER

[grc]

serghaven, Last thursday Sept 9th. I went for a ride to Santa Barbara, Ca.  HD( about 65 miles from where I live in Simi Valley, CA.),  because I heard a rumor that they were closing. I couldn't believe it because they have been in operation for many many years, and actually have a shop in the  city of Santa Barbara, and another a little south near Carpenteria Ca. right on the coast. I have a dealership about 6 miles from my house and two other dealerships about 14 miles from my house in opposite directions.  I asked one of the salespeople at Santa Barbara Ca. why they were closing and he said they were doing great business, but one of the owner's wanted out and HD refused to approve other investors who wanted in. He went on to say that HD wants to close 10 dealerships in Ca. My local dealership is doing great and their inventory is moving well ( I go in there every week and I can see what has sold and what is still sitting there, they did have a purple Fat Boy that sat their for about 4 months) The people working there are courteous, very knowledgeable, always call you by your name and my experience there has been great before and after I bought my 09SEUC which I got in August of 08. We have a lot of dealerships in the Los Angeles area, but if the salesperson was telling me the truth why would they want to close a very longterm well established shop with a good reputation? Has anyone else heard of anthing like this in your area? CAHDBIKER

If you followed the General Motors/Chrysler stories last year, you'll see that H-D and their new CEO have been following many parts of the same script.  Threaten a huge loss of jobs to gain freebies from various governmental units, beat down the little people (unionized or not) to accept huge givebacks in terms of pay and benefits, close down dealerships as a so-called cost cutting measure, etc.  The more you watch the current management at H-D, the more you start to see that they are just following the script to use the taxpayers and employee's to sweeten the pot for the exec's and shareholders.  And while there was little if any proof ever offered up to justify the cancellation of many dealerships, it was an excellent opportunity for the manufacturer's to play a little payback to those who haven't kissed the requisite amount of corporate butt.  I can see H-D definitely going down that road and using the current "crisis" to the weed out places that don't toe the line.  Just as was the case with the auto companies, the actual cost savings to the corporation due to reducing dealerships is tiny (and not very easy to get a real $ figure from them either).  So the only justification I can think of is the so-called protection of the brand image.  Too many dealers in a relatively small geographical area can lead to cutthroat competition in bad economic times, and terrible things like deep discounting might break out.  This does not fit with the H-D philosophy.  And just as was the case in the auto business, you need to look beneath the surface and dig into the politics.  For instance, is there a very well connected dealer in that same geographical area that will stand to gain significantly from the elimination of that competing dealership? 


Jerry

[Chains]

Harley Workers To Vote On Labor Contracts.
The Milwaukee (WI) Journal Sentinel (9/13, Barrett) reports, "Union employees at Harley-Davidson Inc. will vote Monday on labor contracts that could determine the fate of their jobs and Harley's production facilities in Wisconsin." For the company, "the vote could determine whether manufacturing stays in the Milwaukee area and Tomahawk or is moved somewhere else."
        Casual Workers "A Hot Button" Issue In Contract Vote. According to another Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (9/12, Barrett) report, temporary employees "work side by side in the same factories - but often for very different wages and benefits. Companies use temporary, or casual, workers as a way to lower labor costs and smooth out the ups and downs of business cycles. But unions see them as a threat to permanent, full-time jobs and a source of tension in the workplace." Today, "the issue will be a hot button for Harley-Davidson Inc. employees when they vote on a seven-year labor contract that calls for the increased use of casual workers in the company's Milwaukee-area and Tomahawk factories, perhaps at the expense of regular employees."
        Harley Expected To Keep Operations In Wisconsin. The Milwaukee Business Journal (9/10) reported, "It appears that Harley-Davidson Inc. will keep its manufacturing operations in southeast Wisconsin, ending for now the threat to move as many as 1,300 jobs out of the Milwaukee area." The company recently "reached a key agreement with...three unions on new proposed collective bargaining agreements. Union members should follow their leaders' recommendation and approve the new pacts to give Harley the cost concessions it said it needs to improve its bottom line."

[yellowhog]

I've said it before...let 'em leave!  I'll help them pack.  It's time that we stupid little people let the smart corporate phonies know that we can get along without them just fine and that they can't get along without us..AT ALL!  Every time I hear about something like this (too big to fail, etc.) it it really pisses me off.  It's time we woke up!!  Who's in charge here anyway?

[starvin]

Well the contract passed, hard to blame the union members when the company said if it didn't they would start the process of moving tommorrow. As a union member for 34 years I think I'm looking at the company a little different today.

[yellowhog]

When it comes right down to it, most companies don't give a damn about their workers...no matter how many years they've slaved so that the execs could live extremely well.  While the money is flowing like it'll never end , everything is fine, but when things get a little tough (and Harley among others should have forseen this coming) they quickly forget WHO is responsible for their success.  I'm no genius by any means, but Ray Charles could see that.  I sincerely think that we're going to have to get used to an entire different way of life in this country.

[Hotrod50]

How come when a company fails, it's managements fault, but if they are succeeding it's the workers who are responsible?

[sadunbar]

How come when a company fails, it's managements fault, but if they are succeeding it's the workers who are responsible?

It's always managements fault when a company fails, just as it's always managements achievement when a company succeeds.  The management of a company establishes the objectives, plans the strategy and executes the strategy of the company.  Management hires all employees and contractors and is responsible for the supervision and performance of the employees and contractors.  Bottom line is it's managements job to hire qualified employees, train the employees, communicate with the employees, motivate the employees, provide the employees a safe work environment and compensate the employees with competitive wages and benefits.   Employees have the obligation to perform the job they are trained for and paid to do  - to the best of their ability....period.  That's where the employees contribution to and responsibility for the success and failure of the company begins and ends.  The success or failure of a company resides with the management of the company.

When management goes to the employees of a company and demands reductions in compensation and benefits  - and when they go to the local governing bodies demanding incentives because they truly need these contributions in order to remain profitable and viable, it is because management (current or prior) has done their job poorly and mismanaged the company thru either poor long term planning, poor strategic planning or poor execution of their strategic plan.  When management makes such demands, the first thing they should do is humbly apologize to the owners of the company, the employees of the company and taxpayers for failing in their obligation of responsibly and profitably managing the company.  And the board of directors should evaluate the performance of these executive managers and determine if they are fit for their compensation and positions.

Current Harley Davidson executive management has stated they believe they have excess capacity for their markets and they feel they have uncompetitive labor agreements.  They have stated they feel they need concessions from their labor force and they feel they need concessions from the government (and taxpayers) in the form of incentives to achieve long term stability and profitability.

It is of course possible that perhaps Harley Davidson executive management feels the time is ripe to increase profits by taking advantage of the weak labor market and by taking advantage of the taxpayer by demanding state and local government incentives by threatening to relocate their factories and production to more accommodating locations  - regardless of whether they truly need these concessions to operate profitably.  Perhaps they feel it is their obligation to their owners to make the most profit possible by whatever means available - to the detriment of their employees and and to the detriment of taxpayers.  It becomes a matter of how much is enough...

To me - there is a line in there somewhere where moral ground is crossed - and greed has surpassed the good of the company and country.  And I think a lot of companies explore this line.

And I say all of this as someone who has been a senior executive in both public and private companies for the past 25 years.