Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Chains]

I completely agree, I now have to ability to accept less income to keep my people going.
(I cannot do that forever)
If I had to answer to board members, I would be gone.

That is the reason that I like private companies over publicly traded companies.
They at least have the ability to make that decision.

There does come a time when even the stock holders need to think, is it better to make a little money or worse yet lose a bunch if the product does not meet expectations due to poor labor relations and people stop buying it.
 I do answer to a board of directors now, but it is a privately held family company.  In Do not believe I would make it in a publicly traded one.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Seems the problem was not labor relations. 

The problem is there is far less demand for high dollar Harleys in this economy.

So Harley does not need to make any more than will sell so they are making less bikes.

So Harley needs to have less workers.

[J-Carr]

Seems the problem was not labor relations. 

The problem is there is far less demand for high dollar Harleys in this economy.

So Harley does not need to make any more than will sell so they are making less bikes.

So Harley needs to have less workers.

Ah, but it appears that to do so makes you evil.

The truth lies somewhere between the two extremes.  And neither side seems willing to meet in the middle. The unions have made americans non-competitive.  The management has increased their level of greed to a point where it's embarassing to support their organizations.  This is true of many public american companies.

The alternative is to by foreign products that are, in many cases, created by exploited workers at wages that would be considered un livable in this country.  Their management is frequently even more evil, but the American press rarely points that out while groveling at the feet of foreigh interests.

Back in the late 70s, Lee Iacocca took a huge pay cut and then asked his workers to do the same.  While mostly symbolic since Iacocca was rish and had other avenues of receiving income, the point was that he was at least giving some back too.  I do not see Wandell or Willie G or any other Harley exec doing so.  Maybe they are and are not publicizing the fact.  And I know they are more accessible to their customers then many large corporate exec (Go try to find Steve Jobs at an Apple Users group meeting).

So there is room for both sides to move towards the middle and make it possible for the MoCo to get back both profitability and respectability.  We just need to encourage both sides to move.  Not just point fingers at one.

Ride Safe,
JC

[charles05663]

Steve Jobs pay and performance:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/steve-jobs-tops-list-of-ceo-overachievers/7987

[J-Carr]

Steve Jobs pay and performance:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/steve-jobs-tops-list-of-ceo-overachievers/7987

Absolutely.  He's done amazing things for Apple and Pixar.  He may in fact have saved Disney.  He's an amazing CEO who is evil incarnat as a boss.  As an Apple user from back in the days when it was the Steves (plural) not just Jobs it was well known that he was an ecentric egomaniac who one day would appear to be your bestest buddy and the next day throw you to the wolves.  The second coming of Jobs has done nothing to change that.  And some of his business practices...

My point was, you wont see him at a computer convention, using a computer with his loyal customer base.  Willie G has attended many functions.  I've been at one of them.  He led one of the Ride for life's in support of MDA.  At the end of the ride he stode by the bike he had borrowed and waited until the dealer arrived with the trailer to return it to them.  He had no body guards.  And he and his wife were glad to talk to us and spend some time hanging out, just like the rest of the bikers.  Does that mean he's a wonderful person?  No, probably not.  Is Jobs a better CEO then Wandell?  Of course, if you define it by success.  But this thread has been talking an awful lot about how awful the management of HD is.  And I point out that in the grand scheme of things, they're much worse human beings running much more important companies who get a pass on their ethics.

Oh and about that $1 salary.... Wonde rwhat that poor guy lives on?

Ride Safe,
JC

[FNGw/08SERK]

   

[FLSTFI Dave]

Ah, but it appears that to do so makes you evil.

The truth lies somewhere between the two extremes.  And neither side seems willing to meet in the middle. The unions have made americans non-competitive.  The management has increased their level of greed to a point where it's embarassing to support their organizations.  This is true of many public american companies.

The alternative is to by foreign products that are, in many cases, created by exploited workers at wages that would be considered un livable in this country.  Their management is frequently even more evil, but the American press rarely points that out while groveling at the feet of foreigh interests.

Back in the late 70s, Lee Iacocca took a huge pay cut and then asked his workers to do the same.  While mostly symbolic since Iacocca was rish and had other avenues of receiving income, the point was that he was at least giving some back too.  I do not see Wandell or Willie G or any other Harley exec doing so.  Maybe they are and are not publicizing the fact.  And I know they are more accessible to their customers then many large corporate exec (Go try to find Steve Jobs at an Apple Users group meeting).

So there is room for both sides to move towards the middle and make it possible for the MoCo to get back both profitability and respectability.  We just need to encourage both sides to move.  Not just point fingers at one.

Ride Safe,
JC

I do agree with what you are saying.

However the big problem is all major companies have huge compensation packages for their top executives.  So if you cut the compensation of the top level people, they will be easily recruited by another company.  That is a lot of how these compensation packages got so big, Major companies would up their package to lure the best talent. 


Heck, I am seeing this in my industry at the lower end of the food chain.  Maintenance techs with PLC or Industrial controls back grounds are hard to find.  One company will raise their pay to lure people from another company.  I am loving it, as I have had two hourly pay raises this year so I will not go to a competitor.  I can not complain in this economy I have gone up 5 dollars an hour this year

[J-Carr]

I do agree with what you are saying.

However the big problem is all major companies have huge compensation packages for their top executives.  So if you cut the compensation of the top level people, they will be easily recruited by another company.  That is a lot of how these compensation packages got so big, Major companies would up their package to lure the best talent. 


Heck, I am seeing this in my industry at the lower end of the food chain.  Maintenance techs with PLC or Industrial controls back grounds are hard to find.  One company will raise their pay to lure people from another company.  I am loving it, as I have had two hourly pay raises this year so I will not go to a competitor.  I can not complain in this economy I have gone up 5 dollars an hour this year

It's nice to see someone getting some benefit out of this dang economy.  Good luck to you.

Ride Safe,
JC

[FLSTFI Dave]

It's nice to see someone getting some benefit out of this dang economy.  Good luck to you.

Ride Safe,
JC

I know most people are taking a real beating.  I am counting my blessings.  Wife was laid off two years ago, and can not find work in her field, mortgage loans.  So she is working part time at the HD dealer and sub teaching, together they do not come close to what she was making.

[sadunbar]

http://www.mcall.com/business/mc-allentown-harley-davidson-york-20101105,0,3232124.story

So.... take this thread and subsitute "Kansas City" everywhere it states "Milwaukee" or "York".

Part III

I predict the Kansas City workers will make concessions and the taxpayers will take another hit.   

[moscooter]

 
"I predict the Kansas City workers will make concessions and the taxpayers will take another hit."

Pls help me understand what you mean by the above statement.  Taxpayers do indeed take hits from (Public) unions that make demands that are unreasonable and cost taxpayers more.......but if indeed the KC workers at Harley make concessions.........how does that effect the average taxpayer

[sadunbar]

"I predict the Kansas City workers will make concessions and the taxpayers will take another hit."

Pls help me understand what you mean by the above statement.  Taxpayers do indeed take hits from (Public) unions that make demands that are unreasonable and cost taxpayers more.......but if indeed the KC workers at Harley make concessions.........how does that effect the average taxpayer

Pennsylvania and Wisconsin governmental bodies gave financial incentives and tax concessions to Harley Davidson to help retain their presence in their respective states.  My prediction is this will occur in the negotions to retain the Kansas City plant also.

[grc]

Pennsylvania and Wisconsin governmental bodies gave financial incentives and tax concessions to Harley Davidson to help retain their presence in their respective states.  My prediction is this will occur in the negotions to retain the Kansas City plant also.

     That has been their strategy from the beginning.  Play one location against the others (whipsawing), plus screw all the states and cities involved with the ol' extortion deal.  State and local taxpayers will pony up to support the fat cats once again, as will the hourly workforce.  Still waiting to see what the executives are going to throw into the pot to equalize the pain factor across all segments (yeah, right). 


Jerry

[moscooter]

 
OK,  I understand your reply but feel  that those types of "concessions" were offered when HD first was looking to (maybe) come to KC.  Now,  you could be correct if in fact the city agrees to some (new) or extended concessions for tax purposes, etc.

But........" predict the Kansas City workers will make concessions ".......This part of the comment suggested to me something other than that.

[sadunbar]

OK,  I understand your reply but feel  that those types of "concessions" were offered when HD first was looking to (maybe) come to KC.  Now,  you could be correct if in fact the city agrees to some (new) or extended concessions for tax purposes, etc.

But........" predict the Kansas City workers will make concessions ".......This part of the comment suggested to me something other than that.

If the pattern established in Penn. and Wis. is repeated, new Governmental financial incentives and tax concessions will occur.  This will be in addition to worker concessions regarding pay, work rules, part time vs. full time and outsourcing.