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[mitsu matt]

Hello, I have an 03 SERK2 that I recently purchased used. The bike appears to be very lean at idle and off idle till about 20% throttle. I am experiencing what seems like a one cylinder idle at times and I am pretty sure it is due to the lean AFR. The bike has supertrapp slip-ons, but I don't know how to identify the air filter. It appears to be a K&N style filter but I don't know if that is stock or not. I am leaning towards ordering a power commander from fuel moto and want to make sure I tell them the right equipment on the bike so I get the proper base map. I am not looking to eek out every last horsepower, I just want to smooth it out a bit and not run the risk of hurting the motor. Also, if there is a better way to go about tuning my bike, I would be open to ideas. Laconia bike week is coming up and I could possibly get something done by a vendor then, but I have no idea who I should look for.

I am pretty much disgusted with my dealer and there unwillingness to deal with the fact they have sold me a bike that does not run properly, basically telling me to get used to it, so I now have to take it upon myself to fix my bike. I would love to have a bike that doesn't shake me till my eyes blur at a stoplight. I realize there will be some extra vibration with the 103, but when this thing hits on one cylinder, it is just plain obnoxious.

Thanks for any advice you can give. I did search, but most results are from a few years back and i know that technology changes, so I thought I would start fresh.

[Twolanerider]

If you're looking to use some canned map honestly the differences between various high flow air filters won't be enough difference to be concerned over.  The canned map that doesn't specifically match your bike won't be tailored enough to dial in that closely anyway.

If it shakes at idle there is at least a possibility you've got something else going on.  Check your front motor mount also.  Once you're satisfied that's ok then consider perhaps finding a dyno tuner at Laconia or elsewhere and actually getting the bike dialed in.  A good tune for your bike is worth the effort to get done.

[HD Street Performance]

I would check the intake seals before condeming the tune.
If fine then get a dyno tune done using a TTS. This bike is not closed loop but can be converted easily enough and then a lot of the low to mid throttle stuff can be adjusted on the road with a laptop if you are inclined.

Forget the event tunes, the vendors may be fine tuners but they do not have the time it takes to do the job right.

The canned map, PCIII, wouldn't be a way to go for me. I'm biased against add-on hardware, plus injector, exhaust and motor health variations all put a canned map into question as to how close to optimized it really is.

[mitsu matt]

Well, my luck hasn't gotten much better. A couple of weeks ago when the bike was in the shop, they said my idle was erratic due to a bad voltage regulator. They replaced the regulator, charged the battery, and sent me on my way. This week they replaced the intake gaskets and my idle was somewhat better. Picked the bike up, rode it for a day, stopped to get a drink and my bike wouldn't start after, the battery was dead. Jumped it, got it home, and found it not charging at all. I charged the battery, brought it back this morning and was told that apparently, the nut that holds the rotor on backed off, destroyed the rotor and a shim of some sort. They didn't have all the parts in stock so the bike will be down for a week at least. The good news is they gave me a heritage to ride while the bike is down, and they will be covering it under my used bike warranty.

I am wondering if this could have been the cause of erratic/rough idle or excessive vibration at idle. Has anybody else experienced a failure like this? At this point, I am getting pretty frustrated that the bike has been in the shop 3 times in 2 weeks and has so far proven itself to be pretty unreliable. Hopefully this last round of repair will cure my ailments and I can start enjoying my bike.

[Twolanerider]

They're talking about something called the compensator nut.  It's a big nut on the end of the crankshaft that holds the compensator and the rotor in place.  That piece coming loose is not an uncommon failure.

That can actually lead to damage enough it ruins a crankshaft.  If you'd run it a long time and not damaged the engine in a way you should count yourself lucky. 

The magnetic attraction of the rotor is commonly enough it stays in place though.  They'll often keep right on charging even with a loose compensator nut.  If yours ran the battery down it's like the rotor wobbled enough to damage the stator also.  Make sure they've checked it all.  And make sure the new regulator is still good if the stator had failed.

If the comp nut was that loose it was likely making some noise.  Might not have recognized it for what it was.  But there would have fairly prominent tell tale sounds coming from the primary. 

Aside from a really really really low battery shortly before it died there's not much else in the compensator would do to account for the rough engine idle though.  You might have had some mechanical vibration that could easily have been mistaken for a poor running condition at idle though.  So it all at least lends itself to being plausible.  Hope they get you fixed soon and all is now well.

[mitsu matt]

To be honest, the motor on my bike has always been extremely quiet. Even today, I didn't hear a peep of abnormal noise out of the motor. I don't know how long this has been going on, I have been chasing erratic idle issues since I bought the bike in March. Frankly, if there is damage done to the crank, I am not sure they would tell me the whole story. But again, I haven't heard a thing and I do listen closely. I will probably call Tuesday and look for an update on what exactly is getting replaced, and I have the paper trail that this has been an issue since I bought the bike, and I will keep on them until this is fixed for good. To be honest, I was a whisker away from just trading the damn thing in earlier today after hearing the news, but I do really like the bike and hope this is the end of my issues.

[Twolanerider]

If you didn't hear anything a compensator loose enough to cause a problem is unlikely. Something isn't passing the sniff test.

[HD Street Performance]

Pull the air filter. While idleing hot put your finger over the IAC feed port in the TB. Did the motor die? No, you have leaky intake seals, yes you likely have a MAP in the ECU that is not right for the motor and pipe etc.
If you suspect lean this manifests itself with coughing out the air intake especially on roll-ons.
Where you at?
We may be able to lead you to qualified help.

[mitsu matt]

Spoke to the dealership again today and got a little more clarification on what they have found. Being that I am not familiar with the parts, I may misrepresent slightly, but I think I have the gist of it. Apparently at one point the compensator nut loosened up. It did not happen during the time I have owned the bike, but previously. The nut was tightened up, but a result was the splines on the rotor getting worn significantly. The splines on the rotors have gotten so worn that the rotor is freewheeling on the crank and that freewheeling was what chewed up the shim behind it, the part that I have been waiting on. They assure me that the crank looks fine, and that the stator checks out both visually and electrically. They have all the parts now and will put the bike together in the morning.

Frankly, I have my doubts on the crankshaft, but I have not and probably will not see it. The bike is being fixed under the dealership provided used bike warranty, and I highly doubt they would entertain the idea of replacing the crank on my bike if they thought they could get away with putting a rotor in it and running it. The warranty was for 60 days after purchase, and it is expired, but they are covering this since they have been pursuing charging system issues from back when the bike was in warranty. What are the chances the crank hasn't been damaged?

At this point I don't know what to think. My confidence in the bike is shot right now, and I am seriously mulling over the idea of trading it back in for something else, if I could get the dealer to agree on giving me what I paid for the bike, an unlikely proposition I know. I don't really like the idea of possibly having another rotor problem due to the crank being worn, and me having to buy a crankshaft. I haven't had any experience with this though, so maybe my fears are unfounded. I would love some opinions from people who have seen this type of thing first hand.

[Twolanerider]

What are the chances the crank hasn't been damaged?

You simply have to take a look at it.  If the rotor was so eaten up it could spin freely on the splines of the crankshaft you must inspect the crank.  

From the description something continued wearing after the previously loose condition of the comp nut was corrected.  If it didn't the rotor would not have later started moving.  If the rotor teeth were that chewed up the crank must be looked at by someone you trust.  Since you don't seem to trust the dealer either take a look yourself or get someone to do it for you.

If nothing else go in with a camera and post the picture here.

Maybe the crank is so much harder than the rotor that this could happen?  Without visual proof, however, I wouldn't trust it for a moment.

[mitsu matt]

How big a deal is it to get to the rotor and inspect it? I would appreciate the peace of mind of knowing it is ok, and I would like to pursue my options if it isn't. Thanks for the help, Twolane.

[Twolanerider]

How big a deal is it to get to the rotor and inspect it? I would appreciate the peace of mind of knowing it is ok, and I would like to pursue my options if it isn't. Thanks for the help, Twolane.

If it's already reassembled it is a medium sized deal.  Outer primary comes off and all the primary chain drive and clutch parts.  You also need a couple of very large sockets many of us wouldn't commonly have in our tool boxes.  There's also a special puller some use to remove the rotor.  Depends on how strong the magnets are.

It sounds like yours isn't back together yet.  Look at it now while it's still on their lift.  If they are trying to avoid a more significant repair you want to catch it before it leaves their shop.  Once you're gone they can blame anything they want on you if it has survived for any even small period of time.

It really would be visually obvious.  You can see this yourself.

Attached is a picture of a rotor from some guy's eBay listing.  The teeth in the center are what's in question.  Your shop is saying they've worn or broken away.  They engage in obvious groove in the crankshaft.

Those rotors are hard.  It may be that the rotor gave up without damaging the crank.  But it may not be either.  While they're still apart with the bike is when you have to find out.

[Twolanerider]

And here's a picture of a crankshaft borrowed from some other eBay ad.  The grooves in question are what is facing you.  The teeth in the center of the rotor ride within them.

The teeth are terribly long nor the grooves terribly deep.  So even a little damage in the crank is a concern.  And not just wear over the top or "high" points.  If the grooves have been widened any by the rotor's wearing out they'd allow the new rotor to have movement it should not.  That could start the entire process all over again.  Eyeball those splines.  The shop can't not let you inspect your bike.

[mitsu matt]

An update, and this will be more of a rant than anything I guess. I called the dealership the morning after my last post and was told the bike was back together. Everything was great and I could pick it up. I picked it up and rode it home, and then to work with no issues. On my way home I took the long way and about a mile from the dealership I noticed the idle hanging again at 1300 rpm's. I went to the dealership and asked for them to just double check the charging system, which they were more than happy to do. 30 minutes later the mechanic came out and said the bike was charging, but well below spec. He suspected the regulator and tried another one with no success.

Meanwhile, I decided this has gone beyond crazy, and went out to talk to the sales department about getting me off this bike. I have owned this bike 2 and a half months, put around 1000 miles on it, and it has been in the shop 4 times, 3 of which were for a charging system issue. My request was simple, give me credit towards another bike for the amount I paid for mine, I will pay the difference in cash, and we can both get out of this mess. I would absorb the cost of switching registrations and insurance on my end. I have the title for my bike so if they could fix it they could have it ready for sale before bike week. I thought this was more than fair. They wanted to hear none of this, refuse to accept any responsibility for the failures on my bike, and offered me 2400 less than what I paid for it merely 2 and a half months before. They also would not budge on the price of another bike, essentially telling me to pound sand. Obviously, this is not acceptable to me. The next day I met with the general manager of the dealership, explained everything going on, the fact the bike is still not fixed, and that there is no way I would be able to have enough confidence in this bike to ride it during bike week. He was not willing to do anything, told me it was now the stator bad on my bike, and assured me it would be checked and rechecked before given back to me. I got a call that afternoon that the bike was done, and when I picked it up I found they did not put one single mile on the bike. Didn't even roadtest it. Keep in mind the issue usually only shows up after the bike has been ridden for about 30 minutes.

So now I have my bike back. I am riding it back and forth to work, and I noticed it hanging the idle on the way home. I am going to check output on the charging system tomorrow, but my guess is things will still be below spec. I am at my wits end and am stuck with this POS. I refuse to trade it in anywhere else till I am sure it is right, but no matter what, the taste in my mouth is so sour that even if the bike is fixed I will get rid of it before the end of the season. For anybody coming to Laconia this year, I urge you to stay away from Laconia HD. Don't give them one red cent because they could care less about you as a rider or a customer. It is all about the dollar to them. I understand that some problems are very difficult to diagnose, but I feel they have done the minimum they could and are willing to flush any goodwill down the toilet towards a local customer who has tried his best to be reasonable in this situation.

Thanks for reading this, and it feels good to get it off my chest.

[Twolanerider]

If not thoroughly diagnosed the stator-regulator-stator-regulator daisy chain of failures can continue.  If someone doesn't (or doesn't know how) to completely check both pieces one failure after another isn't uncommon.  Enough so that it's not uncommon for some to eventually just replace both at the same time.  It's the only way they solve it without having one part continually killing the other.

Did you ever make a chance to see the crankshaft?  If you did and it's ok all your other problems are soluble.  You've got what's likely a very nice bike and a very stupid dealership.  If the crank really is ok keeping the former and dumping the latter for the sake of your own sanity might end up being a solution.  Then have a solicitor visit them just for tun.