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[georgw221]

Ok ,,Tuners how close can one get to a GOOD Dyno Tune (with an expert tuner),,Using the V-Tune system and a laptop,,,Please give the best way to get a good V-Tune and explain where the Dyno Tune will shine over the V-Tune.

[Twolanerider]

Someone posted this earlier today or perhaps yesterday.  23 pages of homework and you're good to give it a try:

http://www.box.net/shared/4a4dr515xg

[georgw221]

Thanks Twolanerider,,But I would like to hear from Dyno Tuners that have used V-Tune or tuned a bike that had been V-Tuned and checked on a Dyno to see how the V-Tune stacks up to the Dyno tune,,,

[Twolanerider]

Thanks Twolanerider,,But I would like to hear from Dyno Tuners that have used V-Tune or tuned a bike that had been V-Tuned and checked on a Dyno to see how the V-Tune stacks up to the Dyno tune,,,

I would too.  Just wanted to be sure you'd seen that doc for when/if you decide to tackle a self-tune.

[ultraswede]

The big difference won't be in the fuel/air mixture.
The fuel can be set close enough, not much left to improve after a good v-tune.

The BIG difference, dyno VS road/track, is the ability to get the ignition timing correct,
and actually measure the results as you/tuner optimise the spark curve.

The stock timing leave a lot of Tq/Hp and drivabillity/less heat on the table,
waiting for the tuner to unlock with a new timing map.
As we all know, the V-tune only dials in the air-fuel mixture.

//

[Doc 1]

The big difference won't be in the fuel/air mixture.
The fuel can be set close enough, not much left to improve after a good v-tune.

The BIG difference, dyno VS road/track, is the ability to get the ignition timing correct,
and actually measure the results as you/tuner optimise the spark curve.

The stock timing leave a lot of Tq/Hp and drivabillity/less heat on the table,
waiting for the tuner to unlock with a new timing map.
As we all know, the V-tune only dials in the air-fuel mixture.

//

V-Tuning your own bike will get the VE tables dialed in where you ride or better yet where you collected data as you rode. Dyno tuning is a step better because I have the ability to control the load on the bike to hit every cell from 24 kPa to 85 kPa in every rpm from 1000 to 4000....this can't be done on the street. Bottom line is; if you tuned your own bike and then had me tune it on a dyno I would get a better tune than you did just because I have more control of your engines needs. However......not all dyno owners know how to tune so in that case you doing your own V-Tune in the area you ride would be better than taking it to some of these so called tuners out there that talk the talk but actually only accel at taking your money.....lol.
Doc

[frankshd]

a men  to doc your right on the money there prob only a hand full of men like you in this country!!!!!!!!!!   you dont know me but iv done my home work 

[georgw221]

Doc,, To get the best V-TUNE how do you ride the bike on the first ride and the second ride?

[Doc 1]

Doc,, To get the best V-TUNE how do you ride the bike on the first ride and the second ride?

Ride it like you normally ride and ride it the same the first time an second time and even the third time if necessary. Find a route where you have some hills and turns then some hiway riding too.
Doc

[georgw221]

Ride it like you normally ride and ride it the same the first time an second time and even the third time if necessary. Find a route where you have some hills and turns then some hiway riding too.
Doc
[/quote]



Thanks Doc,, Lets say I did as you recommend ,,,After the tune, I ride for about 700 to 800 miles ,, other words I get to know my 09 Street Glide with a good V-Tune ,,, Then I bring the bike to your shop and you put it on the Dyno and tune the bike ,,,,What would I see in the way the bike runs after the Dyno Tune??

[Doc 1]

Another WOW factor....
Performance tuning leaves nothing undone and performance is everything without compromise.....How's that....lol....lol....lol

[Occam]

Another WOW factor....
Performance tuning leaves nothing undone and performance is everything without compromise.....How's that....lol....lol....lol

Heya Doc,

As a well known and respected industry expert on dyno tuning, how hard is the dyno process on the bike?
I was thinking the other day about running WOT with the motor clearly out of tune (or the cust. wouldn't be there); is that overcome by loading a better base map before beginning?
I know you have a solution!
I have no doubt that a good dyno tune will trump all other methods because of the controlled environment, to say nothing of the expert tuner.
Might have to check out Steve at Fullsac a few hours north of me. I could have him see what my own efforts yielded, then tune it properly and see the gains.

The big difference won't be in the fuel/air mixture.
The fuel can be set close enough, not much left to improve after a good v-tune.

The BIG difference, dyno VS road/track, is the ability to get the ignition timing correct,
and actually measure the results as you/tuner optimise the spark curve.

The stock timing leave a lot of Tq/Hp and drivabillity/less heat on the table,
waiting for the tuner to unlock with a new timing map.
As we all know, the V-tune only dials in the air-fuel mixture.

//

I did notice that much of the TTS .pdf dated 2/02/10, section 3 deals with tweaking spark timing tables for temperature, power enrichment, advance, adaptive knock detection, and having separate tables (of course) for each cylinder. It does gather all the aforementioned data during V-Tune runs, and incorporates it into your map. Man there's a lot to learn. Nothing will replace a good modern dyno with dual sniffers and a Jedi tuner; my guess is that the V-Tune utility albeit cumbersome, is the better of the current crop available to those of us looking to do it at home.
At least I keep telling myself that because it's what I bought lol

[Doc 1]

I can only speak for my self on this subject because in reality I'm sure there are dyno operators out there that don't have a clue about anything but twisting the throttle wide open under any kind of conditions.
A good operator will make sure your oil is at the correct level, tire pressure is set at 40 psi, no exhaust leaks, throttle opening correctly....in other words an inspection to make sure the bike is worthy of dynoing.
The dyno, used correctly, is actually easier on your bike than the road just because the drum only weighs in the area of 850 lbs with the eddy brake installed. This is less load than you have on the road so the bikes engine and drive line isn't working as hard...however it can be a little rough on your tire. Steady state tuning under a load can take some mileage off your rubber but it is necessary to tune in the lower kPa/rpm areas.
When a good tuner is tuning his/her eyes are looking at every thing like engine temps, warm up fuels, spark knock, throttle position, and most of all air fuel ratio. If the afr is lean and a tuner continues to carry out the tune with out taking care of the lean condition then yes it could cause damage depending on how lean it was and how long it was run this way.
Again it's all in the hands of the operator not the tool it's self...........a hammer in a carpenters hand will construct....that same hammer in a kids hands will destruct, and there you have it....lol
Doc

[Mr. Wizard]

Doc... now you know we don't allow you to play with hammers... just say'n

[ultraswede]

Just want to make sure there are no misunderstandings;

The V-tune can NOT create an ignition map.

To build a good, cool running, max power, no ping timing map
is what takes the most skill and experience/"know what you are doing" from from the dyno operator.

Anyone wonder why there are so few ignition maps floating around the net???

Because they are valuable, a lot of time, knowhow and even money are invested in a good timing map.

On my stage one 09 ultra, the ignition map made far more difference (power and cool running)
than the fuel/air tuning, once I had the afr richer than closed loop. (V-tuned)