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[tazmun]

 So I've been a little worried about quality control ever since York made consession.
Now the way the MoCo is dealing with Milwaukee about consession, I'm really
getting worried! Yesterday, I drop by my local dealer, and they have an 11 Ultra RG
sitting on the floor. I'm looking at the bike, and something just seems "not right",
then it comes to me. Whitewall tire on the front, blackwall on the back!!!

My dealer didn't EVEN NOTICE.

[Talon]

"Quality Control", I think this needs to go on the oxymoron page!  

Craig

[harlee79]

sounds like you saw the ultra special limited version of the bike 

[tazmun]

sounds like you saw the ultra special limited version of the bike 

Your probably correct. Still, I think we're going to have a ton of quality issues
with the way the MoCo is heading.

[grc]

Your probably correct. Still, I think we're going to have a ton of quality issues
with the way the MoCo is heading.

I assume you meant a ton MORE.  There already were a ton of issues long before the latest changes and posturing by management and the union.

BTW, short of actual purposeful sabotage, the quality problems aren't a result of labor unrest.  They are a result of buying cheap low quality parts and a poor overall quality system, all of which is the responsibility of management.  Even the brightest, most highly qualified and motivated worker can't overcome poor quality parts or design or tooling or systems.


Jerry

[tazmun]

I assume you meant a ton MORE.  There already were a ton of issues long before the latest changes and posturing by management and the union.

BTW, short of actual purposeful sabotage, the quality problems aren't a result of labor unrest.  They are a result of buying cheap low quality parts and a poor overall quality system, all of which is the responsibility of management.  Even the brightest, most highly qualified and motivated worker can't overcome poor quality parts or design or tooling or systems.
Jerry

Jerry,
 You are partially correct. LABOR who's not happy can have a MUCH bigger impact then cheap parts. How do you put a whitewall on the front of the bike, and a blackwall on the back and consider that poor or cheap parts?? I have friends that "use" to have a job at the MoCo, that have wild stories about the "labor" part of the company, even under good times..

[grc]

Jerry,
 You are partially correct. LABOR who's not happy can have a MUCH bigger impact then cheap parts. How do you put a whitewall on the front of the bike, and a blackwall on the back and consider that poor or cheap parts?? I have friends that "use" to have a job at the MoCo, that have wild stories about the "labor" part of the company, even under good times..

Taz, I didn't mean to intimate that labor can't create problems, I just wanted to mention that it isn't always LABOR that screw's the pooch.  Unless management has handed over the reins completely to the union (and if that's the case why is the board of directors still paying them?), they still have the responsibility to enforce rules and processes and the overall quality system.  If they do it properly, even if an assembly worker makes a mistake, honestly or on purpose, it will be caught by the system and won't go all the way to the customer.  Bashing unions, or hourly workers in general, isn't going to improve anything.  And moving operations to some nonunion location also isn't going to fix poor design, poor engineering, poor quality parts, poor processes, and poor systems and controls in manufacturing and assembly.  I want to hear what management is going to do about all those shortcomings, and not just that the workers and the city and the state need to pony up to protect the fat cats.  There needs to be improvement on all sides of the equation, but all too often I just see everyone lay all the problems off on the working man and the union.  Unfortunately it's just like politics these days, there is no middle ground, and it's easier to just point fingers than it is to actually fix things.  Sad state of affairs, and sad period in American history in my opinion.


Jerry

[North Star]

I assume you meant a ton MORE.  There already were a ton of issues long before the latest changes and posturing by management and the union.

BTW, short of actual purposeful sabotage, the quality problems aren't a result of labor unrest.  They are a result of buying cheap low quality parts and a poor overall quality system, all of which is the responsibility of management.  Even the brightest, most highly qualified and motivated worker can't overcome poor quality parts or design or tooling or systems.


Jerry

My Indy told me that HD pays the manufacturer $4.00 to make their rear shocks.....but, to that manufacturer it's all relative, I guess- probably equates to a months wages in China.

[Jerry/MD]

Taz, I didn't mean to intimate that labor can't create problems, I just wanted to mention that it isn't always LABOR that screw's the pooch.  Unless management has handed over the reins completely to the union (and if that's the case why is the board of directors still paying them?), they still have the responsibility to enforce rules and processes and the overall quality system.  If they do it properly, even if an assembly worker makes a mistake, honestly or on purpose, it will be caught by the system and won't go all the way to the customer.  Bashing unions, or hourly workers in general, isn't going to improve anything.  And moving operations to some nonunion location also isn't going to fix poor design, poor engineering, poor quality parts, poor processes, and poor systems and controls in manufacturing and assembly.  I want to hear what management is going to do about all those shortcomings, and not just that the workers and the city and the state need to pony up to protect the fat cats.  There needs to be improvement on all sides of the equation, but all too often I just see everyone lay all the problems off on the working man and the union.  Unfortunately it's just like politics these days, there is no middle ground, and it's easier to just point fingers than it is to actually fix things.  Sad state of affairs, and sad period in American history in my opinion.


Jerry

Bottom line...management and unions need to work on this TOGETHER! I deal with a union sub-contractor and see this all the time. It's a constant us vs. them mentality which provides few solutions. Quality issues should be addressed in harmony by both sides.

[hard10]

...  They are a result of buying cheap low quality parts and a poor overall quality system, all of which is the responsibility of management...
Jerry

In many manufacturing facilities, the materials purchasing person is paid on a commission basis. There is an incentive for that person to buy the lowest priced part they can find.

[smenard415]

Greetings,

Quality has been going down hill for a number of years.  The amount of paint issues has quadrupled in the last several years.  Besides having three seats that still don't fit my 2009 S/E Roadglide had both the inner and outer fairing replaced due to paint issues, one of the saddle bags, and the front fender that had a huge hand print under the clear coat.  Not bad for a $29,000 hand built bike.  Someone was asleep at the final inspection of this bike.  Don't even mention the fact that at 3,000 rpm it sounds like it is going to explode or the $500 in software I had to buy to make it run right.

My 2003 Roadglide, on the other hand, was damn near perfect.  It was flawless paint wise.  With a 95in kit, Andrews 21 cams and a White Brothers 2 into 1 pipe this one screamed.  In fairness I had to software this one too.  It would out perform my S/E in all aspects including ride.  Damn I should have kept it!!  Like my S/E now thanks to Mastertune and Fullsac but it still isn't as much fun to ride as the 2003 was.

One last thought as to the discussions above, I would point out that the S/E's were painted by Americans and put together by Americans so somebody was having a real bad day when mine was built.  No, or very little, pride in a job well done in York that day.

SteveM

[1sharprdkg]

So I've been a little worried about quality control ever since York made consession.
Now the way the MoCo is dealing with Milwaukee about consession, I'm really
getting worried! Yesterday, I drop by my local dealer, and they have an 11 Ultra RG
sitting on the floor. I'm looking at the bike, and something just seems "not right",
then it comes to me. Whitewall tire on the front, blackwall on the back!!!

My dealer didn't EVEN NOTICE.

WOW! Hard to believe the bike made it all the way to the showroom floor and the mismatch tire was found by a customer. Makes you wonder if it had any oil or pistons...

[Rooster]

Some things are done on purpose as I had reason to start to worry when I removed my AC and found some idiot at the factory had drilled the three screws into the backing plate looking right at the paper gasket sitting in the middle of the throttle body. I posted the pictures back then and still have the backing plate with the gasket stuck in place right where I found it to remind me of thier QC.

[Racerdj]

WOW, what a blunder!

[My Bagg]

Quality Control