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[JeffsHogPen]

I thought that I had read in the HD Handbook that is was not to be used in Your Bike.  So is this true or not ?

[ultraswede]

I thought that I had read in the HD Handbook that is was not to be used in Your Bike.  So is this true or not

If you are mean me running E85?

If so, you are correct.
But their's nothing in the handbook that says you can run a 117 with woods cams eather.

I have re-tuned with TTS to make it work.
(For E85, Set the injector cc 0.65 x the cc you have in your tune now.)

[miker]

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov

For the anal.... .. I do try and buy etoh free for my side valve motors...

[guppytrash]

Definitely another govt. boondoggle....currently is financially unfeasible without govt. subsidy (OUR tax money!).
-Consensus is that diversion of corn production for ethanol will result in increased food prices
-Ethanol is very corrosive and prone to water and other impurities absorption...no pipeline shipping, so trucks, trains , etc have to transport
-Energy efficiency is less than gasoline; results in less mpg
-Currently takes 4.5 barrels of oil to produce 4 barrels of ethanol
-Many engines have been extensively damaged by ethanol use

Yes, we need alternative fuel sources, but let's do the proper research before jumping on this unproven fuel and costing the taxpayers billions!   

X2
The biggest supporters of ethanol IS the oil companys for the very reasons you just stated.
Oil and politics are one and the same.  That is the only reason we are still burning crude oil.

Think about this...at the 1900 World Fair Roudolf Diesel displayed his first diesel engine.  IT RAN ON PEANUT OIL!

We ran diesels on crude because it was cheap and available for years.. Now it is not cheap or available (supposedly).
We have a very efficient replacement to gas it is called DIESEL.  And it is a real threat to Oil campanies/ politicians.
When a diesel runs on crop oil it is just as efficient as when it uses crude diesel (unlike gas/ethanol) and is also more environmentally friendly.
Diesel powered cars can still out perform hybrids in mpgs, and there is no battery disposal problems in the future.
Notice how much the EPA has become involved in trying to choke the efficiency of modern diesel motors!? 
Should make you think why?? 
Why don't we just run them on corn oil, soybean oil, used cooking oil, switch blade grass oil?  It would be better for the environment than crude diesel thru some particulate filter designed to lower the MPG's.  Did you EVER hear George W mention bio-diesel?  I never did...but the oil man loved to talk about ethanol as an alternative fuel every chance he got.

Look don't get me wrong all my favorite hobbies involve burning gas, but there is nothing about sending my money to the middle east I enjoy.

Give me 400hp/800tq diesel pickup that runs on crop oil.  Hell give me an HD with a Diesel v-twin!

[HUBBARD]

Ethanol is an extremely good fuel from a technical view.
106 octane, burns soot free, engine runs cooler, more Tq and HP than gas, does not harm fuel systems
on injected bikes. (I run E85, that is 85% ethanol, runs stronger and cooler than gas.)

If the oil companies mix it with bad quality gas, don't blame the ethanol for that.
The reason you see ethanol in your gas nation wide, is because it replaces MTBE as an oxidant in the fuel,
oxidants are needed to fight smog in cities.
MTBE poison the (drinking)water in the ground, ethanol i harmless in comparison.

Many don't make the distinction between Ethanol and Methanol.
Methanol is bad stuff, corrosive, makes you blind if you drink it, aggressive to some rubber materials.
None of that is true for Ethanol, (the stuff in vodka).


As for the politics on ethanol production in north America I will remain silent, none of my business.
In Sweden we import our ethanol from Brazil, made from sugar cane, which use hardly any fossil fuel for its production.

In West "by God" Virginia, we called it "Moonshine", for years.  That's all it is, pure and simple, with additives that make it toxic to drink.  Another government debacle funded by the ever diminishing working class.   Later--HUBBARD

[Jus Cruisin]

Like most have said it has been around for a couple years in Florida. The biggest issue with it is when it sits for a month or so. I was working at a metric bike dealer for a number of years and Yamaha sent out notices to the service departments addressing the issue. Actually, Yamaha was just bringing the "stale" gas problem to everyone's attention. What Yamaha sent out was a demonstration of what happens to the gas after sitting. They used a 2.5 gallon container for the test (as I recall). At the end of the test, there was a lot of water (meaning ounces) in the gas. The ethanol attracted itself to water in the air (the container was vented) and there was no solution to get the ethanol molecules to re-bind to the gas. Corrosion is a big issue as well as the fact that engines just don't seem to run too good on water for some reason either.

[ultraswede]

Yamaha was just bringing the "stale" gas problem

Thats what I meant in my post above;

If the oil companies mix it with bad quality gas, don't blame the ethanol for that.

In Sweden with Ethanol blended gas, we don't have this problem, at all!

In Europe the gas is specified under a strict standard, if its not complying with the specs
its not gas (petrol) and cant be sold.
This is the reason that we in Europe (European Union) has better quality gas than the oil companies
in North America can legally sell. In Europe (EU) "ruining in to a bad batch of gas" doesn't happen, ever.

If you then mix Ethanol in your less than perfect gas, it doesent necessarily get better.

But don't blame the Ethanol!

[Maladjusted]

Ethanol is hygroscopic.  It absorbs water.  So in atmospheric vented fuel systems, such as motorcycles, the ethanol will absorb the moisture in the air.  This will normally not cause problems, unless you let your bike sit for an extended period of time.  Then you will get varnish build up in the fuel systems, the tank, the pump, the lines and the injectors.

For those of you that have said it is used in Florida for years with no ill effects... check the Marine Industry. Ethanol is directly attributable to a significant increase in Marine powerplant failures.  Ethanol is also caustic to certain formulas of rubber and plastic.  Older fuel systems commonly have these types of rubber hoses and it is not uncommon to see chunks of rubber caught in fuel strainers.

Ethanol is not the answer.

Mal

[miker]

And it hates viton...ask the float in my 35 flattie...it is no working now...

[HUBBARD]

The only Fuel Stop I've seen advertising Ethonol in my travels throughout WV, is BP.  I use Sunoco & Ashland at every opportunity.  93 Octane mixed with Torco 114.  Later--HUBBARD

[Gecko]

The smoke and mirrors of the stuff  has been shown to be just that, a feel-good thing for people who would be among the first in line to complain if they couldn't use their cars.  People talk about why don't we use this or that - it's volume.  There is a lot of oil despite what Al Gore etc may say.  To change to an ethanol-based system would require that every plantable acre in the country be converted to producing it.  Brazil is "oil free" because they burn the rain forest to plant sugar cane (which except for Hawaii doesn't grow here).  It was easy for Mr. Diesel to run his engine on peanuts - it was the only engine there was!  Multiply that by all the trucks, cars, ships, bulldozers etc. that run on diesel and there wouldn't be a peanut left to make a Snickers bar.  That being said, EVERY time I am forced to put it in my SERK, and my Fatboy before it the mileage for that tank drops on the order of five to seven mpg.  Don't ask me how 10% alcohol with about 20% less heat energy can cause a drop of 10% in mileage.  It does.  So even without the conversion factors, transport costs, et. al. just the direct conversion of using ten percent more negates any possible gain.

[LRebel]

Do what you want -- believe what you want.  Ethanol does not do your engine any good.  This stuff is being forced on us by AlGore and the like.
Small engines show damage quicker.... takes a bit longer on your bike or car.
The shelf life is shorter.
Your engines will not produce as much power on Ethanol/Gas blend and your mpg will usually drop slightly.

100% gas is easy to find here in Oklahoma.  All of the stations in my small town sell only 100% gas. 
When I travel out of state, it becomes harder to find 100% gas.... sometimes I have to burn it, but I usually don't buy any more than I have to.

And, I don't mind paying a few cents per gallon more for the real stuff. 

[grc]

While folks in the hinterlands may not have to worry about air quality, those in parts of the country with higher population densities or certain weather  patterns or certain concentrations of heavy industry have to deal with ozone and carbon monoxide and smog.  There are many such areas that fall under EPA regulations requiring Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) for use in motor vehicles.  There are also many other areas that use RFG voluntarily.  The EPA lists those areas currently using RFG, follow this link:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg/whereyoulive.htm

RFG is also called oxygenated fuel.  The oxygen molecules in alcohol provide additional oxygen, which helps reduce emissions.  It has replaced MTBE, another oxygenating agent, in many/most areas because MTBE is a highly carcinogenic poison that was found to be leaching into the water table from leaking tanks.

Properly formulated RFG, despite all the rhetoric, does not destroy engines or fuel systems.  If you have a 20 or 30 year old outboard motor or lawnmower, you might need to upgrade the fuel system.  And yes, alcohol can tend to attract some moisture (guess what they use in those Dry Gas type additives).  And yes, alcohol has a lower energy value than pure gasoline.  On the other hand, pure ethanol has a research octane number of approximately 129.  So it is also used as an octane enhancer by many refineries.  That is how you get the higher percentages of alcohol, only 5% is required to meet the RFG standards, the rest is added by the refineries for their own purposes.  If they stay below the 10% max permitted, all is OK.  As long as ethanol is heavily subsidized, it's a viable alternative to other octane enhancing methods from the refiner's viewpoint.

I store my Harley, lawnmower, weed wacker, etc. for the winter with full tanks of RFG that has been treated with the recommended amount of Sta-bil stabilizer.  I've been doing this since I moved to this nonattainment area back in 1994, and I have yet to experience any of the problems people keep dredging up.  There are tons of old engines out there that don't have modern fuel system materials, and they can have problems.  But anything made in the past 10 or even 20 years should not be negatively affected.


Jerry

[RCFlyer]

I stopped at my local Kwik Fill and they told me that they are being government mandated to have 10-15% Ethanol soon. It looks like Ethanol is here to stay, so we might as well get used to it. Also check out this link.

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/government-fuel-goals-beg-for-higher-ethanol-blends-study-concludes/

[shortdog]

Not to be picky, but sugar cane is grown in a large area of South Florida near Lake Okeechobee. The state is currently trying to buy as much of the land as possible to take it out of production for protection of the Everglades.
Also, Sunoco was recently forced by threat of lawsuit to add ethanol to their product! (Maybe only in Florida?)
Indy Cars run Ethanol now with no more failures than usual.
Personally not a big fan of our methods of ethanol production due to effect on food prices. We insist on using corn when there are several other seemingly viable options for materials such as wood fiber, sawgrass and possibly beets. Anything that you can extract sugar from will produce ethanol. Why use a major food staple?
So far have not experienced any adverse effects from ethanol blends at the pump other than Flying-J which seems to push it to the top allowable limit.
Also ethanol blends need a stabilizer in the tank for long term storage.