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[tweeter13]

Thanks Jerry well put,  think I am going to the Ferrari site and tell them guys what they need to do with their vehicles.  What fuel management systems work the best.  Even know I don't own one.  I have worked on a few old ones a while back.  They wasn't worth 5 grand but I guess since I ran the valves and adjusted the carbs on them and I stayed at a Holiday inn express last night I am a expert on everything now.   

It's hard to listen to someone's advise after a few posts of how I read them as mean and one sided and not very open minded.  They may be very great tuners with the systems they like and that's great.  I know people that like and are having very good luck with most of the systems out there.  But they do not try to convince everyone what they have is the best and greatest. 

For example I personally only buy Sony products when it comes to TVs why that's what I have had great luck with and I like not to say that Samsung isn't a great tv as well.  I am familiar with the functions on it.   

May be once I meet someone in person it's different then how they are coming across when typing and how I am reading it.   I try not to jump to judgment because I know I am not as good with words as some. 


Just wondering what would happen if someone started a thread on what brand of spark plug wires are the best? Lol.

Every one have a good eve. And see ya on another thread.  Done here and again thanks Jerry for your wonderful words. 

Todd

[turboprop]

I know Max Headflow, he is not being facetious or a dick. Max is an accomplished engineer, motorcycle racer and a really good person. He does come off as being a little rough sometimes, but he is not biased in any way. If anything, he is very analytical and dives deep into issues to determine the root cause while not simply taking the same left turn as everyone else and applying a band aide to the symptom. A good example of this is his work on the common bagger woble. While many companies have come up with some pretty expensive band aides, Max went right to the root of the issue, swingarm doughnut crush, maybe a ten dollar fix. Another good example is the testing he did an almost every possible carburetor, manifold air cleaner combination. Anyways, please give Max a chance, he is one of the good ones.

[North Georgia Hawg]

I know Max Headflow. He is an accomplished engineer, motorcycle racer and a really good person. He does come off as being a little rough sometimes, but he is not biased in any way. If anything, he is very analytical and dives deep into issues to determine the root cause while not simply taking the same left turn as everyone else and applying a band aide to the symptom. A good example of this is his work on the common bagger woble. While many companies have come up with some pretty expensive band aides, Max went right to the root of the issue, swingarm doughnut crush, maybe a ten dollar fix. Another good example is the testing he did an almost every possible carburetor, manifold air cleaner combination. Anyways, please give Max a chance, he is one of the good ones.

As the famous motivational speaker Zig Ziglar used to say...

"What you say is important, but how you say it is even MORE important."

Ken

[mayor]

Based on my read the TTS would appear to be the easier route to go for someone who has no mechanical ability (me) and just wants to change out the exhaust and have the paid mechanic do the dyno tune. My dealer is recommending the SERT but this does not look the better product - I'm sure this is the only product a HD is going to recommend.

There are Harley shops all over the country that are using and recomending TTS over the SEPST.  Any shop that understands how to tune with SEPST, should be able to tune with TTS with just a little bit of time getting to know the software.  The TTS software is light years ahead of the software interface of SEPST IMO, so the learning curve shouldn't take long if the tuner really understands Delphi tuning. 
   

I guess no-one here is using a Power Commander either...

The Power Commander systems are still being used. The PC's are a piggy back system, which alters the the fuel and timing outside of the confines of the ECM.  There are still some applications that the piggy back systems are very suitable for, but these systems are becoming less popular with the available flash tuners on the market.  The one weak area of the piggy back tuners is the plug in interface at the ecm.  The newer bikes have a very cheap connection harness, so attaching and removing the plug too many times could result having future electrical connection issues.

The DJ Power Vision is becoming a very popular tuning option.  The PV is a flash tuner, and is very nice system.  I personally think the flash tuners are the way to go over a piggy back system.   


I think the biggest key to finding a tuner that can meet your expectations is discussing those expectations with tuners, and then deciding who you want to trust your bike to.  You may find the tuner you trust the most prefers one system over another.  There's quite a few good flash tuning options out there, and sometimes the difference between getting a good tune and not is whether you professional mechanic understands the system in which he's using to tune.   I'm a big fan of the TTS Mastertune system, but having all the internal tools to develop a good calibration is worthless in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use them.   On the same note, there's stripped down flash tuning options out there that will produce more than satisfactory results in the hands of a skilled professional tuner.  The key is to interview the person that you are thinking about hiring for the job, and choose the person that makes you feel the most comfortable.

[sadunbar]

Anyways, please give Max a chance, he is one of the good ones.

If Max is one of the good ones, he needs to act like one.  If he does, he'll be a welcome member of the site.  If he doesn't, then he's just a condescending dick who will quickly wear out his welcome.  His choice...   

[North Georgia Hawg]

If Max is one of the good ones, he needs to act like one.  If he does, he'll be a welcome member of the site.  If he doesn't, then he's just a condescending dick who will quickly wear out his welcome.  His choice...   

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[110tHunDer]

 
Later.

[mayor]

you folks that are taking offense to what Max is saying needs to take a step back and read his comments from a broader viewpoint.  He's not really trying to insult anyone from what he's saying, and even though is comments can be taken as personal shots, he's just giving a very analytical point of view.  I agree with everything that turboprop posted about Max, and will add that he's one of the more humble people you would ever meet.  If you guys think that his opinions are based on personal issues with anyone, you are totally off base.  You guys might find what Max posts to be offensive, but that very well could be due to not understanding what he's saying.   I'm not suggesting that any of you are stupid, but I will publically state that Max is very sharp and sees things at much different levels than most people.  I think an area that he struggles with is he doesn't realize that not everyone he communicates with is on the same level as him. 

For instance his comments about ION sensing may seem brash, but the system really is a band aid for the potential of over advancing the timing.  I personally like the feature, but like Max I don't think that it is an absolute requirement to ensure an engine doesn't explode.  I know of engines that have cooked due to folks using the knock retard inappropriately, so having this feature does not ensure absolute protection.  If someone understands timing the ION sensing isn't as important as someone who doesn't.  The proof of this is the thousands (if not millions) of engines in existence today that do not incorporate this system.

The other point he was making was that the Delphi system is limited in it's closed loop operation.  This also means that as is, the tuning systems on the market are not currently providing an accurate DIY tune at all load ranges.  This isn't a shot at Steve Cole or TTS, this is describing a limitation that is inherent in the Delphi closed loop system.  If any of you guys have been following FLTRI's narrow band thread, you will see that Steve sees this and is trying to address the issue using the tools available.   

[Twolanerider]

If Max is one of the good ones, he needs to act like one.  If he does, he'll be a welcome member of the site.  If he doesn't, then he's just a condescending dick who will quickly wear out his welcome.  His choice...   

"Chances" as were asked for are initially given.  But then earned.  If multiple responses carry the same tone that's the badge that's been earned.  If the guy comes in new he's got to ingratiate himself to any group to be well enough accepted in it to interact that way.

[Twolanerider]

you folks that are taking offense to what Max is saying needs to take a step back and read his comments from a broader viewpoint. 

No, really don't.

If the man wants a broader or better understanding of his intent, and he's got the skills and intellect suggested, it shouldn't be difficult to paint with a broader brush as he writes.  I can walk in to a new group of people (uninvited) and say they have an interesting architectural model with varied aesthetic choices made decorating their clubhouse.  Or I can ask "which one of  you stupid people through all this ugly crap together?" 

[mayor]

Keep in mind that someone with intellect does not always translate to being the best of communicators.  In fact, some of the smartest people I know are terrible at communicating without seeming to be condisending to the folks they are trying to communicate with.  Folks that seem to think in engineer terms are often the worse culprits, since they make assumptions that everyone has the abilities to fill in the missing blanks. 

with that said, it's your club so if you want to live in ignorance of your ugly decorating job feel free.  If you fellows are interested in getting different perspectives on how your decor may be working from a very sharp guy, then you may want to refrain from throwing Max aside due to his less than political comminication skills. 

[Twolanerider]

Keep in mind that someone with intellect does not always translate to being the best of communicators.  In fact, some of the smartest people I know are terrible at communicating without seeming to be condisending to the folks they are trying to communicate with.  Folks that seem to think in engineer terms are often the worse culprits, since they make assumptions that everyone has the abilities to fill in the missing blanks. 

with that said, it's your club so if you want to live in ignorance of your ugly decorating job feel free.  If you fellows are interested in getting different perspectives on how your decor may be working from a very sharp guy, then you may want to refrain from throwing Max aside due to his less than political comminication skills. 

That's no different than the person that attempts to excuse being rude by saying he/she is being "honest."  Communication is a human enterprise that, barring certain behavioral infirmities, any intelligent person can manage to some degree.  It may take forethought.  It may take a quick review and reconsideration before hitting "send."  But if someone wants to hold their audience rather than lose it, if they want to inform their audience rather than simply feel superior to it, they will put in that intellectual effort.  The question becomes if they deem their audience worth the effort or, instead, think themselves superior to that audience and, therefore, not worth that effort.

[sadunbar]

Sorry, but personally, if an intellectual mind is incapable of communicating in a civil manner, I'm really not that interested in what he has to say.   Max may well be "an accomplished engineer, motorcycle racer and a really good person", and if he is, I congratulate him on his accomplishments.  Thing is, he's chosen to not show that side if him here.  My bikes runs fine and I get much enjoyment out of them without scientific technical analysis of the small details.  Again, while there is much technical content to our forum, it's not a "tech forum".  Ours is a CVO based social forum where average guys and gals enjoy each others company and help each other out from time to time.  Maybe that's the part of our discussion that's not completely understood by some of our newer members.

[erniezap]

Okay people, enough BS and back and forth about people, which product is better, etc.  Play nice or we lock the thread and there will be no other option than to start locking people from the site...