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[RedEagle]

Hello;  I am studying the boards for my Modding projects.
Here's what I am thinking and the Questions I have:

FullSac header.   not sure which baffle option  I like the rumble I heard on youtube, but I would like to hear 1.75, 2, 2.25 back to back.
I wont be changing cams until the extended warranty is up, and then only if I feel I need it.

Now the Tuner;  I am thinking SERT because I love to tour and if I have a problem away from home the Harley Shops should all be familiar with the SERT.  Warranty I would think that the Mo Co boys would be a little nicer to their products.
Do the other tuners do something that the SERT does not?
Is the SERT poor quality?
I know that it is tied to the bike and can't be resold.  Not a problem because I plan on keeping this bike to the End...*S
Thanks for your input and opinions
RedEagle

[RedDevil]

Hello;  I am studying the boards for my Modding projects.
Here's what I am thinking and the Questions I have:

FullSac header.   not sure which baffle option  I like the rumble I heard on youtube, but I would like to hear 1.75, 2, 2.25 back to back.
I wont be changing cams until the extended warranty is up, and then only if I feel I need it.

Now the Tuner;  I am thinking SERT because I love to tour and if I have a problem away from home the Harley Shops should all be familiar with the SERT.  Warranty I would think that the Mo Co boys would be a little nicer to their products.
Do the other tuners do something that the SERT does not?
Is the SERT poor quality?

I know that it is tied to the bike and can't be resold.  Not a problem because I plan on keeping this bike to the End...*S
Thanks for your input and opinions
RedEagle

it boils down to personal choice and what your dyno tech is more comfortable with.  A lot of riders on here have gone the Fulsac, x-pipe, baffles, and TTS Mastertune, route because that's what Steve sells and if you buy the  TTS from him he can give you a very good base tune that will require little, if any, tweaking. I have not personally dealt with him, but from what others have said, he also provides outstanding customer service.  I run the SE Super Tuner because that's what my tech is the most comfortable with.  And he's done great tunes on all my bikes,


    

[kraut]

this part seems to change every year lately

Presently it's P/A 41000008, called Screamin' Eagle® Street Performance Tuner Kit (shortened SESPT).

There is nothing wrong with it, works perfectly ok - but on this board it's just not so popular.

TTS Mastertune seems to be the favourite over here, it's from those guys who used to develop the SERT for H-D and will do the same as the SESPT with one exception: for logging rides it needs to be connected to your laptop, it got no seperate storage-unit. On the other hand it's said to be more user-friendly and there are a lot of helpful people on this board in case of trouble. If you want to use Fullsac products you will get a good TTS-base map as I understood, with the SESPT you will have to start from scratches.

I live with the SESPT and I'm quite happy with the result. Because our European specs are different we are left to our own ressources. If I could use US parts I might think differently about the matter. You will not find the support of a Steve Cole (TTS) or Steve George (Fullsac) with the MoCO ...

[Screamin]

it boils down to personal choice and what your dyno tech is more comfortable with.  A lot of riders on here have gone the Fulsac, x-pipe, baffles, and TTS Mastertune, route because that's what Steve sells and if you buy the  TTS from him he can give you a very good base tune that will require little, if any, tweaking. I have not personally dealt with him, but from what others have said, he also provides outstanding customer service.  I run the SE Super Tuner because that's what my tech is the most comfortable with.  And he's done great tunes on all my bikes,


    

x2. My '09 runs like a raped ape w/ it. Totally pleased. Have the RT on my '05 and same story. Runs great. FWIW, my tech emailed me the file and it's always just an email away should I need it.

[RedDevil]

this part seems to change every year lately

Presently it's P/A 41000008, called Screamin' Eagle® Street Performance Tuner Kit (shortened SESPT).

Kraut,
The SE Super Race Tuner (in the new bright orange case) still has the same -08A part number and still lists for $454, but can only be found in the Screamin Eagle part catalog now.  The part you quoted, which by the way is the new format for HD part numbers starting this year for all new introduced parts, is the street legal tuner.  All that one does is allow the tech at the dealership to download maps from the MoCo that will still keep the bike "street legal".  Supposedly, the tech can't manipulate the tables with this tuner, but only download pre-canned maps.  Kind of like the old days when they did the stage one downloads and charged you $35, now they charge you $353 (or something like that) for the interface and then will charge you a "nominal" fee to download a street legal map if you should change things.  It's definitely not the race tuner. 

[grc]

Kraut,
The SE Super Race Tuner (in the new bright orange case) still has the same -08A part number and still lists for $454, but can only be found in the Screamin Eagle part catalog now.  The part you quoted, which by the way is the new format for HD part numbers starting this year for all new introduced parts, is the street legal tuner.  All that one does is allow the tech at the dealership to download maps from the MoCo that will still keep the bike "street legal".  Supposedly, the tech can't manipulate the tables with this tuner, but only download pre-canned maps.  Kind of like the old days when they did the stage one downloads and charged you $35, now they charge you $353 (or something like that) for the interface and then will charge you a "nominal" fee to download a street legal map if you should change things.  It's definitely not the race tuner. 

 

Is this some new way for H-D to make more money when you buy one of their street legal air cleaners or big bore kits?  Downloads for those used to be $149 MSRP, now you get to pay $329 for the device plus a labor charge for each download with this system. 

The "Race Use Only" device from H-D that competes with the TTS MasterTune is the Screamin' Eagle Pro Super Tuner, SEPST, which is the successor to the original SERT.  Funny how they decided to make the two names so similar, SEPST and SESPT.  Might make nonbelievers think someone was trying to fool someone, but I'm sure no one at Harley would ever consider such a thing.

Any dealership that used the SERT in the past should have no trouble figuring out the TTS MasterTune.  As for Harley dealers being more receptive to a person traveling through if he used a SEPST instead of a TTS to tune his bike, I'd submit that as long as you don't tell them they won't have a clue.  It's not like a Power Commander or other add-on device that they can see, and there is nothing attached to the bike which could fail. 


Jerry

[Heatwave]

Is this some new way for H-D to make more money when you buy one of their street legal air cleaners or big bore kits?  Downloads for those used to be $149 MSRP, now you get to pay $329 for the device plus a labor charge for each download with this system.  

The "Race Use Only" device from H-D that competes with the TTS MasterTune is the Screamin' Eagle Pro Super Tuner, SEPST, which is the successor to the original SERT.  Funny how they decided to make the two names so similar, SEPST and SESPT.  Might make nonbelievers think someone was trying to fool someone, but I'm sure no one at Harley would ever consider such a thing.

Any dealership that used the SERT in the past should have no trouble figuring out the TTS MasterTune.  As for Harley dealers being more receptive to a person traveling through if he used a SEPST instead of a TTS to tune his bike, I'd submit that as long as you don't tell them they won't have a clue.  It's not like a Power Commander or other add-on device that they can see, and there is nothing attached to the bike which could fail.  


Jerry

There is clearly an effort on the part of HD to confuse novice bike owners not familiar with the software applications used to tune a bike. They have purposely designed and released a restricted version of their software (and gave it a very similar name) to cause confusion and manipulate those with limited knowledge into purchasing a version of the full tuning software at a slightly reduced $ that is not worth even $50 for such limited capability. Many new owners are going to think they are saving money by buying the restricted software only to find out later they were truly "ripped off". Very sad to see HD going down this path of attempting to raise revenues by "tricking" their customers.

I've been tuning my bike with the SE Pro Super Tuner (both on a dyno and using the Smarttune feature) for more than year. It is good software but it has several deficiencies that I have come to find unacceptable. If you are not running a high lift cam with headwork, I think this software is fine. But after making hundreds of runs and many tuning upgrades with Smarttune, I've come to the conclusion that the software just cannot accomodate cams with significant lift and overlap. The lack of being able to view the AFR readings for each cylinder (a capability that MasterTune incorporates) has become a severe liability in my tuning efforts.

It's just too difficult to properly tune a performance engine without visibility to the Air/fuel ratios Independently for each cylinder. For this reason I will be biting the bullet and converting to TTS Mastertune in December. Planning to upgrade the lifters (Woods Directional lifter) and tune with MasterTune. I only wish that TTS would upgrade their tuning package to include a memory module to store performance data without having to drag a laptop around on the bike. Maybe that will be a 2011 version upgrade.

[guppytrash]

There is clearly an effort on the part of HD to confuse novice bike owners not familiar with the software applications used to tune a bike. They have purposely designed and released a restricted version of their software (and gave it a very similar name) to cause confusion and manipulate those with limited knowledge into purchasing a version of the full tuning software at a slightly reduced $ that is not worth even $50 for such limited capability. Many new owners are going to think they are saving money by buying the restricted software only to find out later they were truly "ripped off". Very said to see HD going down this path of attempting to raise revenues by "tricking" their customers.

I've been tuning my bike with the SE Pro Super Tuner (both on a dyno and using the Smarttune feature) for more than year. It is good software but it has several deficiencies that I have come to find unacceptable. If you are not running a high lift cam with headwork, I think this software is fine. But after making hundreds of runs and many tuning upgrades with Smarttune, I've come to the conclusion that the software just cannot accomodate cams with significant lift and overlap. The lack of being able to view the AFR readings for each cylinder (a capability that MasterTune incorporates) has become a severe liability in my tuning efforts.

It's just too difficult to properly tune a performance engine without visibility to the Air/fuel ratios Independently for each cylinder. For this reason I will be biting the bullet and converting to TTS Mastertune in December. Planning to upgrade the lifters (Woods Directional lifter) and tune with MasterTune. I only wish that TTS would upgrade their tuning package to include a memory module to store performance data without having to drag a laptop around on the bike. Maybe that will be a 2011 version upgrade.

Well said Heatwave.
I changed from an SE Pro Super Tuner for basically the same reasons.  I think HD's mind set is to make it so difficult to use that you will always take it to the dealer.   Then you run into the problem of how good is the dealer with it.  My experience is they are very limited in training and time so the results are not good.  
I now use the Thundermax and have been extremely happy with it's ease of use and the results.  I can make adjustments and it tunes for me, regardless of weather it is 30 degrees outside or 100 degrees outside.    

[Spiderman]

Have not bought a H-D Race Tuner (by any name) for at least five years so I've no idea what the current product is. The one I have in my present ride is excellent. The thing I like the most about it is that it seems that everyone I know running a different product is constantly and I mean CONSTANTLY screwing around with theirs. They tell me how wonderful they are and yet every time I stop by someone's house to go for a ride they've got a damn laptop hooked up to their bike. My SERT was set by a factory tech after the bike was broken in and all the mods were completed. in 20,000 + miles it has not failed to do it's job nor has it it needed any tweaking. At the end of the day, this post is probably just a bunch of smoke because as I said in my opening sentence, I've no clue if what I'm running has any semblence of similarity to what H-D is offering now.

[lonewolf55]

I've been tuning my bike with the SE Pro Super Tuner (both on a dyno and using the Smarttune feature) for more than year. It is good software but it has several deficiencies that I have come to find unacceptable. If you are not running a high lift cam with headwork, I think this software is fine. But after making hundreds of runs and many tuning upgrades with Smarttune, I've come to the conclusion that the software just cannot accomodate cams with significant lift and overlap. The lack of being able to view the AFR readings for each cylinder (a capability that MasterTune incorporates) has become a severe liability in my tuning efforts.

I agree that the TTS is a step up, but it also only allows you to view "desired" afr. I think the SESPT also allows for different cams you maybe just need a different base map. Viewing the Vtune histogram does give you a good picture of how you are doing at collecting data. You will also be able to watch it when on the dyno to make sure you collect enough data in the cells.

[HOGMIKE]

Hello;  I am studying the boards for my Modding projects.
Here's what I am thinking and the Questions I have:

FullSac header.   not sure which baffle option  I like the rumble I heard on youtube, but I would like to hear 1.75, 2, 2.25 back to back.
I wont be changing cams until the extended warranty is up, and then only if I feel I need it.

Now the Tuner;  I am thinking SERT because I love to tour and if I have a problem away from home the Harley Shops should all be familiar with the SERT. Warranty I would think that the Mo Co boys would be a little nicer to their products.
Do the other tuners do something that the SERT does not?
Is the SERT poor quality?
I know that it is tied to the bike and can't be resold.  Not a problem because I plan on keeping this bike to the End...*S
Thanks for your input and opinions
RedEagle

I, too, love to tour.
My personal preference is the TTS, never had a problem with 3 different bikes yet.
That being said, one of my riding buddies has an old PC, and loves it. If I ever need service at a dealer, I can load my OEM map back to my bike. I take a small notebook computer with me mainly to check emails, weather, etc, but, also use it to tune my bike. I DID make a couple tweaks last year on a long road trip, but, have not changed anything this year on the new bike.
I guess it all depends on how involved you want to get with your bike, or, are you ok with letting some dealer play with it?
Sound levels are very subjective, you may hear a friends bike, and not like it on yours! Good luck with THAT!
Do your homework, bite the bullet and enjoy what you buy.
It's all about the ride, right?
The newest version of SSERT? Is anything "wrong" with it? Depends who you talk to....

 

[Heatwave]

I agree that the TTS is a step up, but it also only allows you to view "desired" afr. I think the SESPT also allows for different cams you maybe just need a different base map. Viewing the Vtune histogram does give you a good picture of how you are doing at collecting data. You will also be able to watch it when on the dyno to make sure you collect enough data in the cells.

I know the SEPST software quite well and I'm not aware of any calibrations or adjustments that can accomodate different cam variables. If you are aware of such settings I would be most interested in hearing more details.

[lonewolf55]

What cams are you running?

[RedEagle]

Thanks Guys this is Very imformative.
I have a new opion of the TTS.  I have a Power Comander III on my Y2K FLHRCI 95 build with stage II head work and high lift HQ-0039 cams.  I had it tuned at SpeedWrench in Denver.  The project came out Great good numbers 88HP, 99TQ, sea level corrected.
The point of all the specs is I have the netbook and software but I haven't touch it.  Maybe I just need to get over it and learn to make adjustments.  But I dont want to be that Guy always tweaking it for every ride.
I will continue to watch this thread and want to learn more.  I will making my decision a little further into winter to be ready for spring.
Thank You guys
RedEagle

[Heatwave]

What cams are you running?

Woods 408-6 (.650 lift)