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[grc]

Hmmm,

does anyone know/tried if there really is any difference in the hardware between "SESPT" P/A 410 00008 and SEPST P/A 32109-08B?

I'd rather doubt ...

Haven't tried it, since I refuse to buy this stuff from Harley, but looking at the description and the physical makeup of the VCI's I would say they appear to be identical.  The obvious difference between the two systems seems to be software only.

Both VCI's have the data recording feature and of course provide the interface for communication with the ECM.  What I wonder is how H-D would prevent someone from buying the cheaper version and then using the software from someone else like a dealer or a friend with the full SEPST to perform "illegal" changes.  I'm sure I'm not the first to have thought about that, so if it's possible I bet the sales of the SESPT will soar compared to the SEPST.  Even Harley riders don't mind saving a buck or two these days.  I guess we won't know for sure until someone actually tries it.


Jerry

[kraut]

my thought exactly 

[Mr. Wizard]

A little more info

Click Here

[kraut]

thx,

one other deep look into the usual MoCo abyss 

[Robmay]

Does anyone know if the after market tuners (or any for that matter) will pull the bike out of closed loop? Seems to me after a few tanks, my bike goes right back to hot, hot, hot. I can feel it on my lower leg when the ambient temps out are in the low 60's. 

I have been after this answer for a year now (2010 model was the same with a Super tuner and after market tuner), but to no avail.

[Steve Cole]

You can run the bike out of closed loop with Mastertune, it's up to the tuner to make that choice. While it should not be necessary to do when tuned properly you can do it.

[Mr. Wizard]

You can run the bike out of closed loop with Mastertune, it's up to the tuner to make that choice. While it should not be necessary to do when tuned properly you can do it.

Steve... I think Rob means...  while riding more and more miles is it possible for the ECM to tune itself out of closed loop via Adaptive Learning.

If this is the case then we both know the answer is no if we have normal operation but... there is the possibility of a mechanical or 02 sensor issue and erroneous information is being read by the ECM. At that time the ECM could richen up the L values to "act" like it is and the end result would mimic open loop free air exhaust values.

But, since he is having a heat issue that would lead me to believe he is going the other way... lean.

So, if he has a good tune there could still be a fraudulent 02 reading if there is a mechanical issue present or he may simply have an inferior tune, yes?


btw..  welcome back from your vacation.

[Steve Cole]

IF the O2 sensors are working correctly and the tune has gotten the VE tables adjusted so that the ECM is happy with the tune then NO it will not tune itself out. However if a sensor fails to work properly or an exhaust system is added that forces the O2 to read incorrectly then the ECM will again begin adjusting to try and get the O2 reading back where it wants it. It will still be in closec loop but be misadjusted. Hope this explains it well enough.

[Robmay]

Steve... I think Rob means...  while riding more and more miles is it possible for the ECM to tune itself out of closed loop via Adaptive Learning.

Actually, yes but as you mention below, the other way...lean (closed loop)

If this is the case then we both know the answer is no if we have normal operation but... there is the possibility of a mechanical or 02 sensor issue and erroneous information is being read by the ECM. At that time the ECM could richen up the L values to "act" like it is and the end result would mimic open loop free air exhaust values.

But, since he is having a heat issue that would lead me to believe he is going the other way... lean.

So, if he has a good tune there could still be a fraudulent 02 reading if there is a mechanical issue present or he may simply have an inferior tune, yes?


btw..  welcome back from your vacation.

IF the O2 sensors are working correctly and the tune has gotten the VE tables adjusted so that the ECM is happy with the tune then NO it will not tune itself out. However if a sensor fails to work properly or an exhaust system is added that forces the O2 to read incorrectly then the ECM will again begin adjusting to try and get the O2 reading back where it wants it. It will still be in closec loop but be misadjusted. Hope this explains it well enough.

I have the fullsac 2.25" inserts, Xpipe and TTS Mastertune. I guess the thing I want to know is this: due to EPA regulations, can Harley (MOCO) starting with the 2010 models, have an ECM that no matter what you do will re-learn itself back to 14.7 to stay in compliance (to keep from going to water cooled)?

It has been my experience with this bike (2011 CVO) and my last bike (2010 stock 96" upgraded to a 103" with 255 cams) that no matter what I set the AFR at (12.7 even) the bike would run hot again after so many miles of run time (like it was relearning to stoich). I had a Super Tuner in my 2010 to start with and was told by a reputable tuner that it would not tune itself out of closed loop. He suggested the TTS with the V-tune and this was the route I went with both bikes. V-Tune on this bike was in the 2-5% range after running it (helped by Steve George via phone to make sure I had it right).

With my 09 and 07 CVO, I was able to dial the heat out with a good MAP and richening the AFR. My last 2 bikes, not even close. Speaking to Doc in the past he said the 255's run hotter. Could my heat issue be cam related?

[Mr. Wizard]

Doubt it Rob... I have the same set up with 1.75's...  I'm cool as a cucumber unless I'm at rest for an extended period.

To be able to research your issue I would need more information such as your "now" ECM calibration and how you preformed your VTune, a copy of your VTune starting calibration and the first scan data. Steve and Steve are far more superior than I at this but if you need to bounce it off of me, do so via PM and we will work to get to the bottom of this.



-wiz

[miker]

Schmoopers says your hottness is all you babe....

[Robmay]

Doubt it Rob... I have the same set up with 1.75's...  I'm cool as a cucumber unless I'm at rest for an extended period.

To be able to research your issue I would need more information such as your "now" ECM calibration and how you preformed your VTune, a copy of your VTune starting calibration and the first scan data. Steve and Steve are far more superior than I at this but if you need to bounce it off of me, do so via PM and we will work to get to the bottom of this.



-wiz

Thanks Wiz, much appreciated.

[Robmay]

Schmoopers says your hottness is all you babe....

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! You owe me a new beer...mine just ran through my nose!