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[rts]

Ok guys, help me out here..

I have two 2006 bikes..
FLSTFSE2 and VRSCSE2
(I know, lucky me!!)

When I bought the Fat Boy, I had them put on V&H Big Radius pipes.
I asked if they needed a

[fatboyse2]

You should get a power commander or SERT.  The bikes on board computer can compensate for some degree of change, but given the pipe changes you made you may be running a bit leaner and cause excessive heat and blueing.  If you're gonna spend money on an SERT for your SE2 bike then you may also want to consider a cam change to get some real benefit (torque and HP wise).  There are several stage 1 race downloads for the 1690cc engine with SE cams and performance pipes you can download and not need to dyno.

[Fired00d]

Ok guys, help me out here..

I have two 2006 bikes..
FLSTFSE2 and VRSCSE2
(I know, lucky me!!)

When I bought the Fat Boy, I had them put on V&H Big Radius pipes.
I asked if they needed a

[rts]

Thanks guys...

so basically, just add $450 to the price of any pipes I want to put on the Deuce?
That seems extreme for just wanting to change the pipes..

Do I need to go back to the dealer on the FLSTFSE2? If so, tell them what?
Everything seams fine, but I think I need a "race tuner"?
If they did not tell me I needed one in the first place, can I trust them to install the race tuner corectly?
Did the FLSTFSE2 not come from the factory with the SE air cleaner?

If I get a race tuner for each bike, and have the dealer "install" it, do I just "set it and forget it"?
Is there more work to do in the future?

Again, sorry for the ignorance,
I have had pipes installed on several bikes in the past.
What have I never been advised to get this product before?
Is there something different about the 2006 bikes?

[Fired00d]

Thanks guys...

so basically, just add $450 to the price of any pipes I want to put on the Deuce?
That seems extreme for just wanting to change the pipes..

Do I need to go back to the dealer on the FLSTFSE2? If so, tell them what?
Everything seams fine, but I think I need a "race tuner"?
If they did not tell me I needed one in the first place, can I trust them to install the race tuner corectly?
Did the FLSTFSE2 not come from the factory with the SE air cleaner?

I would ask them why the didn't mention anything about Race Tuner/Power Commander, and SE Air Cleaner when they did pipes originally. You may want to ask them if they have a tuner that is familiar with Race Tuner, and can put your bike on dyno and build you a custom map for the changes you've made to your bike. Because of EPA regulations your bike did not come with a SE Air Cleaner/Filter. The SE Air Cleaner/Filter allows more air in for modifications that owner may make in exhaust and fuel delivery.

If I get a race tuner for each bike, and have the dealer "install" it, do I just "set it and forget it"?
Is there more work to do in the future?

Once the custom map has been built for the modification you've done, then unless you make changes or your ECM goes south or looses the map, then you don't need to do anything else. Only time you would have to have another map built is if you make more/change the modifications you've done when the map was built

Again, sorry for the ignorance,
I have had pipes installed on several bikes in the past.
What have I never been advised to get this product before?
Is there something different about the 2006 bikes?

Were the bikes you had pipes changed before fuel injected? Even with bikes with carbs a pipe change usually requires re-jetting carb and upgrading air filter.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[rts]

If all I did was the pipes, and all I ever plan to do is the pipes, can I just get a "map" (I guess that is the same as "download") for those pipes?

Like..
FLSTFSE2 with big radius
Or
Deuce with big shots

Tell them to give me the correct

[The Bolvine Gigolo!]

Yes you will need to have a power Commander, or Race tuner even if you just change the pipes, and yes again one for every bike there are other guys on here that can explain much better then I about it. But I do know how it helped my Fatboy with the Big Radius, after it was tuned with a RT. And it gave me all the HP I needed for the SEEG, with also a RT, the key is find a GOOD tuner that knows what he's doing. weather it be the PC or the RT. Hey! some of you guy's jump in here and explain farther.  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[Tbone]

rts,
I don't know why I'm even jumping in here because most of the guys on this site are much better qualified to answer your questions.  The Race Tuner, Power Commander or download is the equivalent of re-jetting a carburetor and more.  Anytime you make a change to pipes, or air-filter, you have to change the air/fuel delivery.  If there is a download available to match your change, you can use that instead of the SERT or Power Commander.  If there isn't one available, you should go with the SERT or Power Commander to prevent engine damage and to make the bike run better.  The SERT and Power Commander usually also require a dyno tune which is additional $'s.  I hope this helps and as I said, most of the guys are much better qualified to answer really technical questions.  

[Fired00d]

If all I did was the pipes, and all I ever plan to do is the pipes, can I just get a "map" (I guess that is the same as "download") for those pipes?

Like..
FLSTFSE2 with big radius
Or
Deuce with big shots

Tell them to give me the correct

[rts]

Will the addition of a Race Tuner/Power Commander mean I need the Dyno, or is that just another option?

If the dealer I went to did not offer or educate me on the Race Tuner/Power Commander options, I am assuming that they don't do a lot of them and that they do not have a tech that is familiar with Race Tuner.

I know they do not have a Dyno. Can you get a "good tune" without the Dyno?

And, which is better... RT or PC? There is probably a lot of debate there...

Thanks very much for the education!

[jeffj]

Will the addition of a Race Tuner/Power Commander mean I need the Dyno, or is that just another option? [highlight]Yes you would need to have it mapped or dyno'd as the SERT or PC are just tools to help dial in your scooter[/highlight]
If the dealer I went to did not offer or educate me on the Race Tuner/Power Commander options, I am assuming that they don't do a lot of them and that they do not have a tech that is familiar with Race Tuner. [highlight]I would look elsewhere for a Really Good Dyno guy ask other riders in your area that might know[/highlight]I know they do not have a Dyno. Can you get a "good tune" without the Dyno? [highlight]IMHO - No you really can't unless you find the perfect map from some other scooters setup[/highlight]
And, which is better... RT or PC? There is probably a lot of debate there...
[highlight]I would find the best Dyno guy and go with what the Dyno guy prefers for a SERT or PC[/highlight]

Thanks very much for the education!
[highlight]Again this IMHO and there are lots of different opinions out there[/highlight]

[Fired00d]

Will the addition of a Race Tuner/Power Commander mean I need the Dyno, or is that just another option?

There are places where you can get maps already created for changes you've made. I believe on the Power Commander site they already have some maps built for different mods (free I believe, but don't hold me to that), and you can check on HD Maps (they charge for maps) for maps for the Race Tuner (just make sure whichever way you go check that the maps are specific to the mods you have made. ie: pipes, breather, etc). This will mean you are comfortable with loading program on laptop, hooking laptop to your bike, and downloading map. If you prefer and you find a tuner that is proficient in either one then have them dyno tune it. When I was contemplating which way to go; I talked to the shop/mechanic that was going to be doing the work on my bike, and found what he was most comfortable/knowledgeable with and went with his suggestion (Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner).

If the dealer I went to did not offer or educate me on the Race Tuner/Power Commander options, I am assuming that they don't do a lot of them and that they do not have a tech that is familiar with Race Tuner.

That to me would be throwing a red flag up, and I would look around for someone that had dyno, and was familiar with either Power Commander or Race Tuner.

I know they do not have a Dyno. Can you get a "good tune" without the Dyno?

As stated before there are some maps already built for certain modifications, but will you feel comfortable hooking your bike to laptop and installing them? [smiley=confused5.gif]

And, which is better... RT or PC? There is probably a lot of debate there...

Find dealer/mechanic that you feel comfortable with working on your bike, ask them what they are more comfortable with, and then go with their suggestions. Either way if you want it to be dialed in perfectly for your bike and you are not going with a pre-assembled package such as what Freedom Cycles offers then a dyno tune is going to be your best bet.

Thanks very much for the education!

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Unbalanced]

There is very little difference today in the race tuner and the PowerCommander based on their latest software from PCiii.

The difference is that the Race Tuner writes code directly to your ECM and is not an add on or tote along piece.   Even if you found a map close I would still want it on the dyno to fine tune and be sure everything is correct.

The Powercommand now has Rev limit extender and ability to tune both cylinders and timing.   The only difference is is that it sits on the bike and sends commands well lies to the ECM to get the desired effects.   Unless you have a stage download from Harley you run the risk of if the Power Commander dies, breaks, etc that you would most likely ride the bike way to lean and could do damage to the engine due to the over lean condition.  

If you choose to go down the powercommander route I would highly recommend that you have a harley download installed.   Then have the power commander installed.   The power commander tunes the bike based off the base settings in your ECM.

[jfritz_drfritz]

I wouldn't be too harsh on your dealer since I think he was technically correct in that you do not specifically need to alter your EFI program if you are only changing the pipes, since this will not usually cause a significant alteration in the air fuel ratio without also making intake modifications. I would say that with todays lean running bikes I might feel a little uneasy about it though. You might have been benefitted by being informed that if you wanted to increase performance you should also change the air intake. Some folks though only want a different sound or look hence the pipes only change. I would think they would be reluctant to sell you a cartridge download for non Harley parts though based on warranty and liability considerations :-/

[magicl1]

Well, if you do not have a SERT and have been thinking about getting one, now is the time!