Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[mrhaines7]

So there are a for new bits of gear available to tune our bikes and was wondering if anyone has the new Dynojet Power Vision yet and if they have any feedback.

I was all set to get the TTS mastertune then out came the the Dynojet PV which i have been waiting on  to be released and reviewed before buying and now im reading about the EMS tune which i am really liking.

Any info appreciated.

[mjb765]

According to Fuelmoto's website the Power Vision did not ship until today. Do a search on the others and you will get lots of info from this forum.

[Twolanerider]

If you enjoy the "tuning experience" definitely consider TTS or Power Commander or whatever.  If you're more interested in just having done well with a smarter bike in the process take some time to study the EMS package. 

[mrhaines7]

Id prefer to just get on and ride but i also want to get the best setup for the bike so if there is no big difference in the end performance i will go the EMS route but if there is a noticeable difference and the tuning process with the PV is not to labour intensive i will run the race instead.

Hurry up and wait for some more reviews i guess .

[Twolanerider]

Id prefer to just get on and ride but i also want to get the best setup for the bike so if there is no big difference in the end performance i will go the EMS route but if there is a noticeable difference and the tuning process with the PV is not to labour intensive i will run the race instead.

Hurry up and wait for some more reviews i guess .

Have used myself or set up for others the SERT, Power Commanders, Thundermaxes, TTS, Twin Tec and now the EMS package.  Granted only limited experience with the EMS so far.  But my experience seems in line with what others are reporting. 

End result with EMS is as good or better than you're going to get with any of the others.  Might possibly see competitive results with the others with a really good dyno tune.  But I don't think you'll see better with the others if you're doing it yourself.  And the EMS is done "tuning" almost as soon as you bolt it on.  For me from now on it's a no-brainer.

[Steve Cole]

You need to decide what you want to do. IF your going to tune the bike and spend the time to get it right no off the shelf tune is going to do that for you. The EMS package is an off the shelf tune that uses O2 feedback to trim the fuel ONLY. No timing changes are going on and there is a fair amount of performance to be had in the proper fuel and TIMING tune. So if close enough is good enough then it's up to you.

[guppytrash]

  subscribed

[timo482]

ive read a bunch of stuff on ems - are we "sure" it does not work timing? its possible for a computer to use a knock sensor to adjust timing - does it?

as for me - a grand of good cash made at the 25 bux per hour rate & spent on a dyno to gain 1hp, compared to plug and forget seems very very very tempting

to

[Twolanerider]

as for me - a grand of good cash made at the 25 bux per hour rate & spent on a dyno to gain 1hp, compared to plug and forget seems very very very tempting

to

Pass the bong my friend.  We're smokin' the same stuff .

[guppytrash]

You need to decide what you want to do. IF your going to tune the bike and spend the time to get it right no off the shelf tune is going to do that for you. The EMS package is an off the shelf tune that uses O2 feedback to trim the fuel ONLY. No timing changes are going on and there is a fair amount of performance to be had in the proper fuel and TIMING tune. So if close enough is good enough then it's up to you.

Would "off the shelf" or "close enough" be what you call the TTS packages.  You know like the ones sold as a kit with mufflers and air cleaners from Kuryakyn or Steve.

Are those "right"? 

It has become comical how every time there is a new tuner/applicator that comes out how quickly you are here to tell us what it does not do.

[Twolanerider]

Would "off the shelf" or "close enough" be what you call the TTS packages.  You know like the ones sold as a kit with mufflers and air cleaners from Kuryakyn or Steve.

Are those "right"? 

It has become comical how every time there is a new tuner/applicator that comes out how quickly you are here to tell us what it does not do.

It came up before here that when multiple vendors are present to represent their product that we are all better served to let each speak to their own.  We'd have a good idea what to expect if Henry Ford were speaking to product that Ransom Olds was producing in competition.  Nothing we can do, however, if Steve chooses to continue speaking to products beyond his own. 

I've found Cole's willingness to share on his own product incredibly helpful and informative at different times.  It's easy enough to skip past a post when another vendor could or should be speaking to his own product though.  At least the vitriol that seems to exist on some other sites discussing arguing about tuning options is generally absent here.  Were such a tone taken here I'd find it incredibly unwelcome.

Guppy, I'd not really thought of this in these terms until now.  But the broader context of this question is another thing that made me more comfortable going with the EMS product.  The details of the product were explained easily, casually, comfortably and (most important) to my total satisfaction.  No competitive rancor.  In fact the only times a comparision to other products ever came up Brian's or Andrew's responses were always to suggest their competence and move on. 

No overriding egos nor insecurities were involved that seemed to force them to interject.  It's no doubt good business for them too.  No wasted time talking about products other than their own and no poor impressions made because they're smart enough to stay above the fray.  As a customer it's just more comfortable feeling like you're going for a ride with a guy whose goal is the enjoyment of the ride rather than proving he is so correct all the time that he'll get off the bike to argue with a stop sign.

[sadunbar]

It came up before here that when multiple vendors are present to represent their product that we are all better served to let each speak to their own.  We'd have a good idea what to expect if Henry Ford were speaking to product that Ransom Olds was producing in competition.  Nothing we can do, however, if Steve chooses to continue speaking to products beyond his own. 

I've found Cole's willingness to share on his own product incredibly helpful and informative at different times.  It's easy enough to skip past a post when another vendor could or should be speaking to his own product though.  At least the vitriol that seems to exist on some other sites discussing arguing about tuning options is generally absent here.  Were such a tone taken here I'd find it incredibly unwelcome.

Guppy, I'd not really thought of this in these terms until now.  But the broader context of this question is another thing that made me more comfortable going with the EMS product.  The details of the product were explained easily, casually, comfortably and (most important) to my total satisfaction.  No competitive rancor.  In fact the only times a comparision to other products ever came up Brian's or Andrew's responses were always to suggest their competence and move on. 

No overriding egos nor insecurities were involved that seemed to force them to interject.  It's no doubt good business for them too.  No wasted time talking about products other than their own and no poor impressions made because they're smart enough to stay above the fray.  As a customer it's just more comfortable feeling like you're going for a ride with a guy whose goal is the enjoyment of the ride rather than proving he is so correct all the time that he'll get off the bike to argue with a stop sign.

Well said, Twolane... 

[Steve Cole]

Well let's see if maybe I can say this better than I did the first time. The ECM on a HD motorcycle is split into parts, one section is the code that runs the ECM and another area is the calibration area. The calibration area is what is adjusted for various engine combination's, this contains the spark, fuel and sensor calibrations. It allows you to switch certain parts of the code off or on but it does not alter the code that runs the ECM which is where all decisions are made from. Mastertune or any other product that allows "user programming" allows you to alter or modify the calibration area, no changes to the code area are allowed. EMS is an off the shelf unit in that you cannot modify it at all, you order it and you get what they send to you, and from the report on this site they are doing a good job. Mastertune or any other unit that allows you to alter the tuning makes you the tuner to dial things in to your liking. It's up to you to determine the spark and fuel values that go into the calibration. Once you've done that the ECM code will make adjustments to the fuel side only for tuning, the spark side of things is only handled as a safety device. If it pings it removes more timing than is necessary because it is there to protect the engine and none of this is changed in the EMS unit, the code is one in the same as it is the original code. The ECM code will not add spark if the calibration has been set more retarded then it should of been.

What has been done in the EMS unit is to turn the development area of the calibration back on, this effects FUEL ONLY and turns the production switching sensors off and sets the real wide band calibration back on. This mode is use in the development process of the calibration with REAL Wide Band units (~$3500) attached to the motorcycle while under test. This allows for calibration of the fuel system under real world conditions. This is done so that various component changes can be adjusted out from what was seen in the dyno lab.  In the lab you never have the real production level parts that will be on all the various models and this process is how it is adjusted for. It has been in ALL Delphi ECM's for a HD from day one. It was never intended as a  production release product but it's in the code for each and every Delphi bike out there.

So when I say "No timing changes are going on and there is a fair amount of performance to be had in the proper fuel and TIMING tune."  It means that you get what you are given in an off the shelf unit where as any unit that allows you to reprogram the ECM let's you set it to what your engine combination want/needs, but the decision is up to you to set it properly.

Now as far as what Kuryakyn or Steve (fullsac) are doing it's the same as what EMS is doing other than the addition cost of the Broad Band sensors. They provide adjustments to the calibration area of the ECM that allow your combination to run properly. The use of Broad Band sensors does allow the ECM to make adjustment over a larger area if necessary but it does NOTHING for the Spark side!

"In fact the only times a comparision to other products ever came up Brian's or Andrew's responses were always to suggest their competence and move on. No overriding egos nor insecurities were involved that seemed to force them to interject.  It's no doubt good business for them too.  No wasted time talking about products other than their own and no poor impressions made because they're smart enough to stay above the fray.  As a customer it's just more comfortable feeling like you're going for a ride with a guy whose goal is the enjoyment of the ride rather than proving he is so correct all the time that he'll get off the bike to argue with a stop sign."

If this were true then why would these comparisons to other products been made both here and on the EMS web site? How about let's tell the truth here! Your happy with there product and that is great but let's not tell lies. If you like I can and will post the code dump for you to see that no changes are made. Is that enough truth for you?

Look people, some are willing to learn and adjust things to there liking and others are not. The EMS product has been targeted to the market that wants to bolt something on and not have to mess with it. Mastertune and other products like it have been for those willing too and wanting to learn and adjust there bike to there liking. Fulsac, Kuryakyn and others have taken and made it so those that buy there kits can also bolt it in and forget it.

[Twolanerider]

Well let's see

It's easy enough to skip past a post

[guppytrash]

Nail on the head Twolanerider!

The only exception for me personally to what you said is, I like the discussing/arguing that takes place.  For me there is plenty to be learned when the "gloves come off" so to speak.
 

Now as far as what Kuryakyn or Steve (fullsac) are doing it's the same as what EMS is doing other than the addition cost of the Broad Band sensors. They provide adjustments to the calibration area of the ECM that allow your combination to run properly. The use of Broad Band sensors does allow the ECM to make adjustment over a larger area if necessary but it does NOTHING for the Spark side!

Kind of the same.
Except if you change exhaust or cams at a later date the EMS will not need another tune on a dyno. $$

Except as you said the Broad band O2 sensors will let you run richer AFR's than the stock O2 sensors in closed loop.

And just so no one is mislead the stock O2 sensors do NOTHING for the Spark side either!