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[bigjohn]

"You could have that kind of HP and an equal amount of torque to go with it out of a V-Twin"

lol...my wife would have me killed long before I got to that stage.
If you look at their sheet they have nothing unless they are in their powerbands. But when they hit the power band look at the jumps..thats amazing.

I will stick to the ole v twin, more comfortable for us old farts and really cant picture my wife with a thong hanging out on the back of a crotch rocket, I am sure she would have an issue with that......

[timtoolman]

big John she is going to kill you now anyhow  if she ever hears that horn blow

But i found the article from A.I.M.   Feb 2006.  Its a  92 sporster that does FLASH races    87.3 cubes, 126 hp doesnt list the trq.  best Et at that time  10.16 AT 135,  And spanks "busas" on a reg basis , and has done more up grades since,  cam  is a red shift 567 ,  Thata almost 9 seconds in a qtr mile!  this  sporster im sure it can kill a v-rod no problem , stock frame, swing arm ,  Tell me torq isnt a major factor here, to beat sport bikes in a qtr mile. you have to be quick , and its steet driven daily


And so if your guys say hp is the key to dyno happiness ?  are these proven and winning national record holders wrong? and your right because the dyno  results and hp is better?, someone has to prove  them wrong first and thats not going to happen is it?  No  a cvo dyna wont beat a v-rod,    but it could, and thats not a even comparason  could big johns  09  ultra beat a v-rod?  yep it will.

Going to the  70's muscle car scene, which was the quickest STOCK production  car made???  It was the buick GSX  grand sport,with a 455,
(as reported by motor trend magazine)  why?  510 ftlbs of torq @ 2800  and only 360  hp some say 400 hp,  They spanked the 426 hemis and 427's in  1/4 mile  races, It Doesnt matter what car or bike   it is the torque is the major portion of a winning  1/4  mile race

[Half_Crazy]

my wife would have me killed long before I got to that stage.
If you look at their sheet they have nothing unless they are in their powerbands.

My wife says if I blow any more money on this bike she's leaving. I sure am gonna miss her...

I was looking at the dyno graphs for that 155 on R&R's site. I think 160 on TQ at 3000 RPM would be WILD. I'm not sure if that much power could possibly be hooked to the ground. Tire shreader?

[timtoolman]

yep  mines gone??? wha hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[strokerjlk]

If torque won drag races a CVO Dyna would spank a V-Rod, wouldn't it?

Don't get me wrong, nobody is a bigger torque junkie than I am. I build my motors for best average torque, but drag racing is a completely different ballgame than riding out on the street. Bikes I can crush in a 5th gear roll-on have spanked me badly thru the 1/4 mile.

Identical bikes: If the other guy makes more HP above 5000 RPM than I do... and he leaves at 4500 RPM and shifts at 6500... I don't have a prayer. He will never be at an RPM where I have any advantage. Nothin' but tail light for me.

However, mine is a much better street bike. Drivability, carrying a passenger, riding up a mountain, rolling into the throttle in high gear... he would have to downshift 2 gears to stay with me. That's where torque comes in handy.

well said

Tim remember RPM is still part of the game. tq /hp and rpm. still talking ET race's.
the higher the rpm....(as long as it is still efficient enough to build hp) the less tq. it takes to make that hp. so you make your peak hp at the higher rpms where you want to shift at. so there are a couple ways to go about it. either you build a higher rpm motor that is still making hp out to say 7000 rpm ,some are turning 8200 rpm with a peak hp at 7800-8000...or use enough cubes, compression and the right fuel. aka alkyl nitro. to make big hp at 5000-5500 rpms.
et racing is totally diff than street riding.
the reason that sporty doesn't mention tq. is because they don't care ...as long as it has enough to make the hp at rpm's who cares.
I bet you would be surprised if you knew exactly how much tq. it was making .
 light flywheels  smallish ci don't make a lot of tq.

[timtoolman]

true, Ill agree to most of that Jim  but then why is it the faster one doesnt win sometimes  when the quicker one does?   Just asking not being contentious

[Unbalanced]

Its the you been Otis'd theory the guy who is quicker shuts down sooner while in the lead and the other one then goes by            

[timtoolman]

never heard that , thought u didnt shut down until that old white line is crossed, any sooner than that ,  the rider needs beat about the head for not paying attention a few wack, wacks and that wouldnt happen again

[strokerjlk]

true, Ill agree to most of that Jim  but then why is it the faster one doesnt win sometimes  when the quicker one does?   Just asking not being contentious

reaction time,Launch,60 ft time, 300 ft time.
hooking up and reaction time.
when your MPH dosent look to match ET,you have to go looking for why.
I love low end tq. as well. but just as half crazy said. launch at 4500 rpm and never drop below 5500 after that. what you want is enough tq. to still be making hp.

[Unbalanced]

Tim,

That is on the street not the track        Happens a lot, but in regards to your real question if a guy gets off a lot faster and better 60ft or 300 ft that initial time getting off quicker cna be the difference of why he won vs. lost.   Not all the time is the raw HP on the top end enough to make back up that slow leaving the line.

[bigjohn]

e. tq /hp and rpm. still talking ET race's.
either you build a higher rpm motor that is still making hp out to say 7000 rpm ,some are turning 8200 rpm with a peak hp at 7800-8000...or use enough cubes, compression and the right fuel. aka alkyl nitro. to make big hp at 5000-5500 rpms.

Thats all the addition of nitros is doing. With the cam selection, comp ratio and shift points, nitros was the answer to making the engine more efficient with hp in the 4500 - 6500 rpm range. That way it is always shifting into the power band.

[Dr.D]

I think there is a lot more to enjoying a bike besides the big numbers or fast ETs. I like both but if I really needed it I'd go for the Boss Hoss @ 455hp and 455 ft/lbs.

I think a quarter mile race bike is so different than a nice powerful street bike that they are not comparable. My dyno sheet says 120 and it feels good so I like the number. I agree the numbers are tools and good reference points but as Paul Harvey used to say there is a "rest of the story".

[timtoolman]

nitrus  is a ungiven  unequal  factor, unless everybody is running it  on the track,, or turbos or a procharger to put things on the same playing field,   and it doesnt make a engine more efficient  it make a engine more powerful using many times the amount of fuel normally required.  thats  not efficient power  its just real time power

 My dyno nnumbers  says the same as your Doc, but i see many boss hoss's  getting beaten repeatly on the track  but that because of a different problem,   lack of traction.  hmmmm  a procharger  why didnt I think of that  earlier???

[Half_Crazy]

I remember a couple of years ago, my buddy, Joe had his bike set up just like mine. Same engine, same gearing, we weigh the same... That's him in the left lane in my sig pic.

The difference was the exhaust. His pipes had small diameter headpipes, so he had me by 10 ft-lbs up to about 4000 RPM. After 4000 my bike would breathe better and my peak HP was 10 more than he could make. The difference between the bikes in the 1/4 mile was .25 seconds and 7 mph. Even if he holeshotted me good, I could catch him and pass him. He managed to beat me twice, but that was either me having to bring down a big wheelie, spinning the tire, or missing a gear after he had a perfect holeshot. With my HP advantage upstairs, I'd have to screw up pretty bad for him to beat me thru the traps.

On the street, like powering off corners in the twisties or roll ons from low RPM, I could tell his bike had bigger balls and he'd walk me for a bit until I got her spinnin'. I would have liked his grunt and my horsepower.

Moot point now. I added six more cubes, all from stroke, this year.

[bigjohn]

Moot point now. I added six more cubes, all from stroke, this year.
You are going to feel that.

hmmmm  a procharger  why didnt I think of that  earlier
There is always time for another build, These things are great hobbies.

I think there is a lot more to enjoying a bike besides the big numbers

DR D you are showing great numbers, once you get use to grabing a handfull of that throttle you will realize what I mean. A lot of builds shoot for your numbers. The mis-conception that you cant have both are wrong. I tour on mine all the time, usually 15,000 mile a year. I know Tim and half crazy do too.