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[TwoToes]

Has anyone installed the ThunderMax AutoTuner by Zipper's Performance? I am looking at this vs. the SERT or TTL MasterTuner. Anybody have any good or bad comments regarding this tuner? I saw it at Arizona Bike Week at the Reinhart booth and it sounds good but I'm just not sure. Its a little more money but It never needs a dyno so you can save in the long run especially if you change anything later like adding cams.

[sadunbar]

Has anyone installed the ThunderMax AutoTuner by Zipper's Performance? I am looking at this vs. the SERT or TTL MasterTuner. Anybody have any good or bad comments regarding this tuner? I saw it at Arizona Bike Week at the Reinhart booth and it sounds good but I'm just not sure. Its a little more money but It never needs a dyno so you can save in the long run especially if you change anything later like adding cams.

My opinion...there's better choices.  I'd recommend the Revolution Performance EMS.  It doesn't require a dyno either....

My prior experience with Zippers customer service performance was disappointing to say the least...

[guppytrash]

I have it on my 09 and love it.  It is easy to make adjustments and user friendly.  I can't say if it is making any more TQ or HP than it was with the SERT that I had before but it sure feels like it does.  
That being said I would probably have bought the Rev Performance EMS if that had been available before buying the Tmax.
Both use the wide band O2 sensors.    
S&S seems to be selling the Zippers stuff now too.

[guppytrash]

One thing you should know is your exhaust has the new smaller O2 bungs and you will need to use the 18mm bungs like on the 2009's for any tuner using the wide band O2 sensors.  But it will be worth it!
I will agree that my experience with Zipper's is they are pre-wired to tell you "it's not a Tmax problem it has to be something else wrong with your bike"
The fact that S&S is starting to sell Tmax's may improve service after the sale.

[cvobiker]

My opinion...there's better choices.  I'd recommend the Revolution Performance EMS.  It doesn't require a dyno either....

My prior experience with Zippers customer service performance was disappointing to say the least...

X2 on that... 

[Rio]

Re ThunderMax: I have had just the opposite.  I have the new Rinehart system and when I installed the TMax they did not have a canned map for this exhaust system yet.  I ended up using the map for V&H cross headers, high flow air cleaner, I think map 46 but not sure off the top of my head.  None the less, with the help of Randy at TMax I have both the front & rear cylinder at 93% perfect, 6% excellent, 1% very good.  Bike runs cooler, and performs well.  Best yet, any changes that I make going forward you don't have to send the ECM in to anyone, it automatically adjusts.

This being said, I am happy with the system, and I have 3 friends that use the system on their 2007's and their happy too.  Personally, I think the technology is out there for everyone, and there is probably very little difference you will notice from one system to the other sitting in the seat of the bike.  I think it comes down to ease of use and convenience.  The TMax system is very easy to install and set the intial map.  You don't have to send anything to anyone or make any further adjustments.  As far as customer service for TMax, I never had any issues, but who knows, everyone has a bad day.

Good luck, lotsa choices, do your homework!  Lot of opinions here!

[roadrunner]

I have them on my 04, added auto tune 3 years ago and upgraded their ECM to the latest a year ago. I use their tech support via email and they usually reply within a day.

I had issues with pinging last summer riding to up, when hot, and going up inclines, I sent them my existing map and they sent me a new one.

My 2 cents!
Ride safe!

[cvobiker]

Best yet, any changes that I make going forward you don't have to send the ECM in to anyone, it automatically adjusts.

Hey Crimson, just wanted to clarify something in your above statement in regards to Revolution Performance EMS. You send in your ECM in 'one time only' from that point the system will automatically adjust for any changes with the exception of increase in cubic inches... And in that case it's a free overnight ECM adjustment... also, EMS gets you a 99.9% good tune once you've done the initial 30 second setup....  

[Ironhorse]

I am not a big fan of Zippers Tech Support.

I have the ThunderMax ECM and throttlebody on my '01. The bike runs better than it did with the old Magnetti-Marelli SERT system but the mpgs are in the low 30s and that is with conservative riding. So I sent James Ramsey (one of their tech guys) an e-mail asking him to look at my map and suggest changes. I included my build specs. This is what I got back from him.

 
Mark
 
I received your map- with request for assistance.  In order to properly help you, I will need more information.
 
·         Is the fuel mileage condition a new problem
·         when did the heat condition occur
·         what data can you provide to help support the heat problem?
·         did these conditions occur at the same time
                    If yes how long have you had the heat and fuel mileage condition
·         Was anything changed on your cycle before this condition occurred?
·         dyno chart showing a torque curve
·         copy of your fuel mileage log
                    with ThunderMax
                    with factory ECM/SERT
·         monitor log of you average riding trip you are attempting to emulate
                      minimum 5 minutes of ride time
·         description of your average riding style
·         copy of all warranty logs stored in the module
·         what fuel octane do you use
                     do you use any additive
·         cranking compression
                     current
                     immediately after build
·         brand/part number of spark plugs
·         are the spark plug wires factory
·         is the gearing factory
·         what brand and weight oil do you use
                      trans
                      primary
                      engine
·         how much oil is consumed in a 3500 mile period
·         weight of motorcycle as your ride it
·         how would rate the current drivability compared to the drivability with the SERT
·         do you usually ride by yourself or 2-up
·         what size rear tire
·         Air pressure you maintain on front and rear tire
·         do you have an additional speedometer calibration device
·         how many miles are on the bike
·         what mileage was the fuel filter last replaced
 
James Ramsey
Zipper's Performance Products
 
 
I'm not sure if he was being helpful or if he was trying to chase me away. What kind of average Joe can work with that? So I went on the Harley Tech Talk Website and there is a guy there with the handle of "Mayor". I started working with him and he tweaked my MAP (without all the info that James Ramsey at Zippers NEEDED) and the bike runs so much better. With his changes in timing the bike runs cooler. With his afr changes the bike is now getting mpgs in the high 30s. I could probably get over 40 if I slowed down below 80mph.

So I guess what I am saying is that the product is good, but any REAL help you need will probably have to come from non Zippers support.

Mark

[Twolanerider]

Has anyone installed the ThunderMax AutoTuner by Zipper's Performance? I am looking at this vs. the SERT or TTL MasterTuner. Anybody have any good or bad comments regarding this tuner? I saw it at Arizona Bike Week at the Reinhart booth and it sounds good but I'm just not sure. Its a little more money but It never needs a dyno so you can save in the long run especially if you change anything later like adding cams.

On my own bikes or those of others I've used all you've listed and some you haven't.  If you want to go through a thorough and potentially time consuming learning curve tweaking the map to get things dialed in the TTS or the Thundermax can get you there.  But you'll have to put some time in to it to really dial things in.  And you'll have to do some homework.  Also, my experience with Zippers tech support has been as others have described.  Having enjoyed their tender mercies to the extent I did I would now rather ask a large and well hung gorillla for sexual favors before I'd ask them for help again.

If, however, you want to consider a newer option that EMS package that Scott mentioned is worth a little study time.  It is new.  So the user cohort here isn't large yet.  But its service so far has been almost universally good, it's dead easy to install, it's fast and takes no time after installation and the company behind act like guys you'd like to ride with on weekends.  For me anymore it's a no-brainer.  If my options are study, install, tune, tweak, ride, tweak, ride, tweak, ride, tweak, rinse and repeat and assume I'm getting close or spend a half your on an install and then just go ride and not think about it anymore.....   Well....  I'm not young anymore to get any enjoyment out of "the process" when the tool can do that process for me.

FYI though, just an interim warning, RevPerformance has an interim glitch on the EMS kits for the 2011 bikes.  At the moment they apparently don't have software for the 2011 ECMs quite dialed in yet.  So if a 2011 user just has to do it right now he has to get a pre-11 ECM to use instead of the stock piece.  The alternative is easy though.  The completed software was said to be "two to four weeks" away from being done.  Once that's done the 2011 guys are good to go.  Spoke to the guys at Revolution Performance about this just this morning because a buddy's 2011 bike is in the shop and we didn't know about the software glitch until after we'd mailed the ECM.

[rheiner]

I wonder why the 2011 ECM has a part number ending -08B rather than -11? They aren't cheap, list price $343.

[mjb765]

I wonder why the 2011 ECM has a part number ending -08B rather than -11? They aren't cheap, list price $343.

The replacement ECM has that part number--the one that comes on the bike from the factory ends in -11.

[Twolanerider]

I wonder why the 2011 ECM has a part number ending -08B rather than -11? They aren't cheap, list price $343.

The suffix is a bit of a chimera on ECMs.  The module itself can be physically identical to another but get a different part number based not on the module but on the software load within it.

[rheiner]

The suffix is a bit of a chimera on ECMs.  The module itself can be physically identical to another but get a different part number based not on the module but on the software load within it.

You'd think if they updated the software in 2011 they'd call it a -11 part rather than a -08B. But just to be clear, the -08B ECM doesn't work at the moment with the Rev Perf EMS? If I could get a model year 2010 ECM at a decent price I'd consider the Ref Perf but not if I have to buy a 2010 ECM even at 20% off. I guess 2-4 weeks isn't that long, if that's what it really is, but I've heard 2-4 weeks from other unnamed tuner makers that turn into 2-4 months...

[Steve Cole]

In 2011 HD changed the calibration software and the process to program the ECM's. All companies that reprogram the ECM's had to learn the new ways to be able to do 2011 ECM's. Rev is new to the game and it's just taking them a little longer to figure it out. I'm sure they will get there, just give them the time they ask for.