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[t059736]

Good day Riders.
I'm looking for assistance here to understand the situation that I am dealing with. I recently purchase a 103 cu inch, 2006 FLHTCUSE with 4800 miles. I've put about 200 miles on the bike and noticed a brown stain seemingly coming from the rocker cover above the rear spark plug. Was riding this past week-end and the stain "grew" to now cover an area on the cooling fin about the size of a silver dollar. Took the bike to the local dealership and after paying a $150.00; I was told the bike was test ridden and there's nothing wrong. The brown stain is from the engine sweating. Now if it were an engine leak it would be fixed but "engine sweating" is acceptable to HD. Now if I want it "fixed" - so there is a cure; the price would be somewhere between $800-$850. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!
Since there is only 1 stealer....; I mean dealership in town, I am asking the forum members for their advice and input.

Thanks

Ride In Peace

[Twolanerider]

Good day Riders.
I'm looking for assistance here to understand the situation that I am dealing with. I recently purchase a 103 cu inch, 2006 FLHTCUSE with 4800 miles. I've put about 200 miles on the bike and noticed a brown stain seemingly coming from the rocker cover above the rear spark plug. Was riding this past week-end and the stain "grew" to now cover an area on the cooling fin about the size of a silver dollar. Took the bike to the local dealership and after paying a $150.00; I was told the bike was test ridden and there's nothing wrong. The brown stain is from the engine sweating. Now if it were an engine leak it would be fixed but "engine sweating" is acceptable to HD. Now if I want it "fixed" - so there is a cure; the price would be somewhere between $800-$850. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!
Since there is only 1 stealer....; I mean dealership in town, I am asking the forum members for their advice and input.

Thanks

Ride In Peace

Some discoloration around the plug area isn't terribly uncommon.  It's due to heat.  But what that is and the area it covers doesn't really match with what I understand your description to mean.  Nor, for that matter, do I know what a "sweating" engine is.  At operating temp the cylinders and heads are above the boiling point so condensate moisture is occuring during the time your stain spread/grew/whatever.

Is it a heat discoloration or an oil stain you're seeing?  If the latter it's a simple rocker box leak.  $800 is a big amount of money to change a rocker box gasket.  And that's the only leak "above" the plug.  So if it's a leak that's your problem. 

I'd suggest getting the (stupid sounding) service report in writing.  But your bike is out of warranty and the dealer doesn't sound like one I'd trust to air my tires.  Got any independent shops within range?

[16HD117]

I work for a Honda car dealer and Honda's definition of sweating is a porous block or head casting that allows oil or antifreeze to seep through the casting.  Never heard of a Harley doing that but I guess it could happen.

[TwoToes]

Never heard of a motor sweating. Pigs don't sweat either. So don't know why a HOG motor would sweat either?? Sorry, just kidding, hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction. Good luck and let us know what you find out. Thanks.

[ice6900]

"engine sweating" is that a new term for "acceptable to MOCO oil seepage" 

[grc]

I think you had it right the first time, that is a "stealer" you dealt with.  I'd not darken his door again.

Engines don't sweat, people do.  But engines do leak when they're built by H-D.  Not terribly uncommon for the rocker cover gaskets to develop seepage, and before handing those crooks any money you might want to just try snugging up the rocker cover bolts and cleaning off any oil residue, then ride for awhile and inspect again for leaks.  If you identify a real oil leak and can't fix it yourself, find an independent shop to make the repair.  Replacing a rocker cover gasket doesn't cost anywhere near $800.

If you have a dark stain directly around the spark plug, that can be just heat discoloration, or possibly the result of combustion gases getting past the sealing ring of the sparkplug.  It's very obvious on the silver engines, not so much on the black ones.  I had that occur on my SEEG shortly after I bought it; I cleaned the surface as best I could and made sure the plugs were installed correctly ever since (15 ft lb with a torque wrench), and the stain didn't get any worse over the next 5 years.

BTW, I don't exactly understand the deal about giving them $150 just to look at the bike and give you that BS response without any attempt to fix anything.  Is that the way stealers do things in Canada?  I thought the ones here in the US were bad, but that makes the places around here look almost reasonable.


Jerry

[sadunbar]

If it's heat discoloration, it is what it is....   

If it's gases escaping from around your spark plug, replace your plugs and torque them as Jerry sugggested.  (Replacing your spark plugs gets you fresh spark plug sealing gaskets).

If it's oil leaking from your rocker boxes, it's either leaking from under the lower rocker box half, or from under the upper rocker box cover.  Replacing both lower rocker box gaskets is about 3 or 4 hours.  Replacing both upper rocker box cover gasket is an hour and a half tops.

None of this is very complicated - and none of this should cost $150 to "look at" or $850 to repair.

[mattm]

One of your rocker box bolts might just have loosened up a bit, this happened to me.  You might want to just check and see if all 6 bolts are snug.  If you find a loose one, remove it, clean it, put a bit of blue loc-tite on it, and tighten it back up.

[skreminegul07]

I work for a Honda car dealer and Honda's definition of sweating is a porous block or head casting that allows oil or antifreeze to seep through the casting.  Never heard of a Harley doing that but I guess it could happen.

Actually yes.  HD did have some porous castings.  I had a 2007 SERK that had porosity around the speed sensor.  Yes, everything was tried, but it kept leaking.  Tech support said change the tranny case and lo and behold,  it was fixed.  There have been other HD porous castings noted on this site. 

[mcflyer]

YEAH THAT'S IT HARLEYS DONT LEAK THEY JUST SWEAT OIL.  SINCE WE ARE DEALING WITH AN AIR COOLED MOTOR THE ONLY FLUID ABLE TO LEAK FROM THAT AREA IS OIL.THE ROCKER BOXES HAVING SEVERAL LAYERS MOVE AROUND AS THE MOTOR HEATS UP (EXPANDS) AND COOLS DOWN (CONTRACTS). WHILE ALL THAT IS HAPPENING A SMALL AMOUNT OF ENGINE OIL SEEPS FROM THE GASKET AND LEAVES A THIN LAYER OF OIL TO WHICH DUST AND DIRT STICK TO.  THATS WHEN YOU SEE IT AS A STAIN AND IF YOU HIT IT WITH SOME BRAKE CLEAN IS WASHES OFF AND EVAPORATES.  YOUR DEALER IS QUOTING SEVERAL HD DESCRIPTIONS OF SEEPAGE, SWEATING OR LEAKING. YOUR DEALER MAY BE VERY HIGH IN ENGINE WARRANTY WORK AND WILL DENY THAT ITS A PROBLEM UNTIL ITS TURNED INTO A FULL FLEDGED LEAK.  IN THIS DAY AND AGE NO HARLEY DAVIDSON ENGINE SHOULD NOT LEAK OIL BUT THEY DO.  BACK IN THE DAY THERE WAS AN OIL DEVELOPED BY ARCO THAT WAS CALLED "ARCO GRAPHITE". IT WAS A GREAT OIL WHICH GOT A BAD NAME FOR CAUSING LEAKS BECASUE THE OIL WAS BLACK AS MIDNIGHT WHEN IT CAME OUT OF THE CAN. AMERICAN CAR ENGINES WERE NOT SEALED WELL AND THEY SEEPED ALOT OF OIL FORM JUST ABOUT EVERY GASKET AND JOINT. WHEN CHANGED TO THE GRAPHITE OIL IT SHOWED INSTANTLY WHERE THE SWEATING WAS AS A BLACK STAIN.  MY POINT IS IF YOU HAD A METHOD TO LOCATE THE SEEPAGE LIKE THE BLACK OIL DID THE DEALER WOULD PROBABLY FIX IT OR AT LEAST ATTEMPT TO.  YOU MIGHT WANT TO STOP AT A LOCAL AUTO PARTS STORE AND PURCHASE A LEAK DETECTION KIT. IT CONSISTS OF A BLACK LIGHT PEN,  YELLOW UV GLASSES AND A FLOURESCENT DYE.  YOU ADD THE DYE TO THE ENGINE OIL DRIVE THE VEHICLE AROUND FOR 10 OR 15 MILES THEN LET IT SIT WHILE SHINNING THE BLACK LIGHT AROUND THE ENGINE LOOKING THROUGH THE UV GLASSES FOR YELLOW TRACER DYE TO APPEAR AS A BRIGHT YELLOW LINE OR AREA. IF YOUR DEALER DID THIS HE PROBABLY WOULDNT BE DENYING THERE IS A LEAK BUT I HAVENT SEEN ONE IN ANY HD DEALER I'VE EVER BEEN IN.  YOU MIGHT WANT TO INVEST THE $40 AND BUY IT YOURSELF TO PROVE THERE IS A REAL LEAK THERE.  GOOD LUCK

[dlaws01]

There is a manufacturing industry definition differentiating between casting sweating, seeping & leaking. Not that it really matters to the guy it's happening to. However I have experienced this issue when it comes to maintenance and warranty.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

 
Scott