Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[grc]

This explains perfectly why the 110" motors fail more than the 96"....

The 2011 models were the 4th model year to come since the powertrain engineers fell asleep at the wheel, so the questions become 1) What has been done to correct this? and 2) Is the HD bottom end 100% reliable now?

Is the Pope a Baptist?

Scott pretty much covered what H-D has done so far, and none of it directly fixes the root cause of the problem.  Torque reduction tuning tweaks and things like extra cushioning with rubber biscuits in the rear sprocket don't fix a poorly designed crank and poor machining/assembly processes.  I tend to call such stuff "bandaid engineering".  And those electronic torque reduction tweaks don't do much good when people have the bikes retuned and eliminate the bandaid.  BTW, I wasn't aware that Harley was ever known for anything approaching a 100% reliable bottom end.

Last I heard, people are still finding excessive runout on cranks even four years after the initial fiasco in '07.  The way Harley chose to address the issue, increasing the "acceptable" tolerance limit fourfold, should tell you what they think about their customers.  Of course, they will be happy to sell you a supposedly better crank from the SE catalog which may or may not really be any better, but it will add to their profits.  Same way they "fixed" the original compensator problems.


Jerry

[Half_Crazy]

Last I heard, people are still finding excessive runout on cranks even four years after the initial fiasco in '07.  The way Harley chose to address the issue, increasing the "acceptable" tolerance limit fourfold, should tell you what they think about their customers.

Disturbing...

H-D and me  -  a classic love / hate relationship.  Current score:  love 40, hate 50, bewildered 10

Understandable...

Most companies can't buy the kind of brand loyalty that Harley enjoys. If they had to increase the price of each big-twin model by $500 to build a reliable bottom end, do you think they would lose ANY market share?

[Spiderman]

Disturbing...

Understandable...

Most companies can't buy the kind of brand loyalty that Harley enjoys. If they had to increase the price of each big-twin model by $500 to build a reliable bottom end, do you think they would lose ANY market share?

Actually in many ways they have done this. Look at the changes to the frame, the transmission and brakes to name a few that have come on-line in the past few years. I've ridden a 2011 H-D Road Glide Ultra Limited in box stock OEM condition and was shocked at the difference between it and my spent a bunch of money on it Faux CVO 07 Road Glide. The handling of the 2011 was incredible as compared to my 07 even with the changes I've made to my shocks and fork springs. The power of the stock 2011 103 while nowhere near close to the top end of my built up SE 103 was nearly the same in the 1st -3rd (well I couldn't wind it up as much in 3rd)  So I will give the MoCo credit for trying to make needed changes. The thing that pisses me off and I would assume most of you is that while the cost of a 2011 standard model has not increased by that great a margin, the cost of all of the CVO's has gone up 15% from what it was 5 or 6 years ago. My buddy that owns the 2011 Road Glide Ultra Limited rode it away from El Cajon H-D for $25,000 period. That included tax, title, doc fees, shipping, setup whatever. $25k and away he went. Seems to me that I recall folks buying 2003 Electra-Glide Ultra Classics and paying $25k and a bit more. So 8 years and no price change as opposed to my best bro Screamin_Beagle for instance paying $30k plus tax, title, doc fees, shipping and set-up on his 2005 SEEG Cherry Bomb which is now a SEUC and sells before all the extras at $40k. So here's MY Question. What has H-D done for it's best customers. The ones who buy their most expensive models. All of you who've bought CVO's in the past few years and especially this year from what I'm seeing. Seems like you've had another $10k tacked onto the sticker price and gotten nothing more for it than the guy buying a standard Ultra-Limited (ok, so you get that wonderful 110 motor) Paint ? My buddy's RG has a gorgeous paint job on it. I couldn't believe it wasn't a CVO when I first saw it. So what's left - - fancy wheels and some electronics - - - do they add up to $10k ? You tell me. I used to trumpet the CVO line-up because I felt you got value for your dollar. Value in all the goodies that were standard on a CVO over a regular production H-D and to a degree value in your resale. I'm not so sure anymore. $15k difference between my buddy's 2011 Road Glide Ultra Limited and a 2011 SERG, and that doesn't include the additional sales tax on that $15k. Actually it's probably closer to $16k. You can buy another H-D (used) with that difference.

Sorry to get off on a soapbox but you know, when the mood strikes the fingers take on a mind of their own.

B B

[Half_Crazy]

Actually in many ways they have done this. Look at the changes to the frame, the transmission and brakes to name a few that have come on-line in the past few years.

All great improvements after 2009 on the touring models and they ride and handle much better... but they left the same weak foundation in the engine... not just on the touring models, but all big twins. Doesn't seem that tough to fix for a huge company like HD.

[Spiderman]

All great improvements after 2009 on the touring models and they ride and handle much better... but they left the same weak foundation in the engine... not just on the touring models, but all big twins. Doesn't seem that tough to fix for a huge company like HD.

Actually the 103 motor option seems to be a solid platform (IMO)

B B

[Midnight Rider]

BB...if you go through the differences piece by piece between the RG Ultra Limited and the CVO version, you're still getting more bang for your buck, believe it or not.  I was SERIOUSLY considering the Melot Sunglow RG Ultra Limited before getting the CVO version, so I sat down one day and priced out the things on the CVO that would be "must haves" on the Limited....for me.  Things like chrome forks, different floorboards for both driver and passenger, wheels...you get the picture.  I was quickly approaching the price of the CVO, and as we've all said so many times before, IF I ever sold the Limited with all the add-ons, I'd never recoup any of the money spent for the adds.  I lost my a$$ on the '06 SEUC because of all the things I did to it...the biggest loss was the wheels and brakes, but I never liked the wheels on the '06 models, and the brakes were just not very good, nor the suspension...blah, blah, blah.  However, I'd probably still have that bike if things had not happened to make me have to sell out for a while.

I'm not sayin' that I would have done ALL the things to the Limited that are on the CVO RG, but a good portion of them.  I'll have to say that the 2011 SERGU, from a cosmetic point of view, really cranked my tractor the first time I saw it...there are very few, if any, things I want to add just for looks, and I did enough reading here as a lurker to know that the 110" motor is at least SOMEWHAT more reliable than it was back in '07/'08, but I still bought the extended service plan, just in case.  Yes, the suspension still sucked, but I fixed that, and would have done the same on any HD I bought.

Having said all that, the RG Ultra Limited is a really nice bike in stock form, and most normal people would be perfectly content with it as is, but I don't think I'm normal...I did get to test drive one of them, but knew I just wouldn't be content unless I got another CVO bike, so here I am...In your case, you've done such a great job on LD, and really don't have a reason to sell, so that bike will be with you for many years, I assume.  At some point, we'll all be buying CVO Trikes...

[ultrafxr]

B B, don't know who is selling the SEUCs for $40k but I know they can be had for much, much less than that.  I overpaid for my 06 cuse - about $1500 over msrp.  On my 07 I got it for msrp.  And, my 11 was in that ballpark also.  So I really have not seen that much price increase.  But then I have turned into a much more hard nosed shopper since dealers are willing to deal - some anyway - just gotta search them out and be willing to go to them even if they are not local.

[dlaws01]

Sadunbar, man you must have gone to H-D college! That sounded just like a research report. I'm sold.

[funseeker57]

     Well my Dealership came through for me today.  After taking everything in the primary apart for inspection, they told me the primary chain was the correct tension with the auto tensioner.  Then they used the updated voodoo locktite torque procedure for the compensator nut/bolt.  The best part was they didn't charge me anything so I didn't have to go into argument mode.  I've been reading all the posts with interest.  Looks like I'm not the only one that has had this issue.  Now I'm looking forward to a great Summer riding season.  Hopefully with no issues. 
     Now if I could only get it to quit raining for a day or two around here.  In the Seattle area summer shows up on July 5th.

[Twolanerider]

     Well my Dealership came through for me today.  After taking everything in the primary apart for inspection, they told me the primary chain was the correct tension with the auto tensioner.  Then they used the updated voodoo locktite torque procedure for the compensator nut/bolt.  The best part was they didn't charge me anything so I didn't have to go into argument mode.  I've been reading all the posts with interest.  Looks like I'm not the only one that has had this issue.  Now I'm looking forward to a great Summer riding season.  Hopefully with no issues. 
     Now if I could only get it to quit raining for a day or two around here.  In the Seattle area summer shows up on July 5th.

The new tightening procedure is something they should know well.  It's been the proverbial law of the land for several years now.  Attached below is a PDF of the Harley tech bulletin that details the change.  Might be worth keeping if they ever get argumentative.

[Spiderman]

B B, don't know who is selling the SEUCs for $40k but I know they can be had for much, much less than that.  I overpaid for my 06 cuse - about $1500 over msrp.  On my 07 I got it for msrp.  And, my 11 was in that ballpark also.  So I really have not seen that much price increase.  But then I have turned into a much more hard nosed shopper since dealers are willing to deal - some anyway - just gotta search them out and be willing to go to them even if they are not local.

San Diego Harley-Davidson - - - -PT Barnum's Great Great Grandson runs the place now !


B B

[Supershooter]

Its posssible to purcahse a SEUC for MSRP which is under $40K but, after a few mods $40K comes pretty fast, I have $40 in my 2010 SEUC. I'd really like to trade for a SESG but am not willing to take a bath on my Ultra.
Supershooter

[Half_Crazy]

Actually the 103 motor option seems to be a solid platform (IMO)

If I'm not mistaken, the 96", the optional 103", and the CVO 110" all have the same stroke.  So everything SADunbar stated in post #10 holds true for all three engines, but the bigger you make the bore the more stress you are putting on an already weak foundation.

If the optional 103" made substantially more power than the 96", and the crank was beefed up to handle it, THEN it would be a solid platform and worth the extra money, but as presently delivered that's sort of a stretch...

According to this article, the 103" option nets you a whopping 66 HP at the rear wheel....

http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2011-kawasaki-vulcan-1700-vaquero-vs-2011-harleydavidson-road-glide-custom-90376.html