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[copout221]

So my 2010 SEUC is currently being repainted to resemble the picture below. Since it's all pulled apart I'm having a high compression piston and cam kit installed and wanted a good exhaust to match the engine upgrades. After doing some research I decided to go with the fullsac x pipe and 2" baffles. Today my mechanic called me and said they had just dynoed a 2011 CVO SG with the same type of engine kit I'm going to be using along with ported/polished heads, fullsac x pipe, and 4 " Vance and Hines slip on's and the numbers were really bad. He blamed it on the fullsac x pipe andsaid I should use something else like D&D to get some better numbers. I have read nothing but good reviews on the fullsac products and am a bit confused about what I should do. I don't even know if Fullsac will take the x pipe back for a refund so I may be SOL.  

[Diamondback]

 

I would call Steve at Fullsac and get his opinion. He is very knowledgable and reasonable.

I find it hard to believe the B x-pipe could be the issue.  I have one and my numbers are great. 

That said a D&D 2 into 1 is the best solution for power with no question.  But loud loud and loud.

IMHO

 

[cahdbiker]

Copout211, A lot of people on the site have done some powerful builds with Fulsac products. My opinion is to stick with the Fulsac for now and if you get enough power and performance you won't have to part with the extra green for the D&D pipes.If you are not satisfied I am sure someone on the site will buy the X pipe off you for sure. I have never heard any D&D pipes in person, but based on the posts I have read they are pretty loud. If you go on a long vacation the noise can become a distraction. Just my opinion from personal experience. Good Luck CAHDBIKER

[Diamondback]

 

[Keats]

I would call Steve at Fullsac and get his opinion. He is very knowledgable and reasonable.

I find it hard to believe the B x-pipe could be the issue.  I have one and my numbers are great. 

That said a D&D 2 into 1 is the best solution for power with no question.  But loud loud and loud.

IMHO

 

I put the D&D's on and I opted for the 2.25" baffles and do not find them to be loud.......

I find them soothing. (only get a little grunting when you twist the wick wide open)

not nearly as obnoxious as those Rinehart true duals that have that "crack" about them.

(of course I will now hear from the "purple" end cap crowd now)

[1sharprdkg]

I put the D&D's on and I opted for the 2.25" baffles and do not find them to be loud.......

I find them soothing. (only get a little grunting when you twist the wick wide open)

not nearly as obnoxious as those Rinehart true duals that have that "crack" about them.

(of course I will now hear from the "purple" end cap crowd now)

Thats funny Keats, at Thunder Beach I lost count of how many bikes I saw with "purple" end caps! Not to start a war but the Rinehart sound does not appeal to my ear. I do like my 2.25" Fullsac baffles. Sounds like they may just be trying to "make a sale". 

[bigdave110]

I think it depends on what you would like.
I do think the 2 into 1 will help your numbers low to mid
I use D&D and love them. (Even used them on my old shovel 103, and they out performed the other pipes I tried.)
It seems a lot of people don't like the single exhaust look on touring bikes and the ghost pipe is 300 plus clams.
The D&D is expensive just like most other mods we do, but the power,fit and finish to (ME) is worth it.
That coupled with the fact that I don't care what other people think of how a single pipe looks on (MY) touring bike.   HA
To you it may not be a problem.
Good luck with which ever you choose.
Dave

[copout221]

Thanks for the input from everyone. I am going to speak with Steve from Fullsac on Monday and hopefully he will be able to steer me in the right direction. I am also open to the option of going with the TTS and eliminating the engine kit with SERT. That will give me around $1200.00 plus labor back in my pocket and the TTS is around $450.00. It seems that a lot of owners have had incredible seat of their pants results from simply using the Fullsac X pipe, 2" baffles, and the TTS with a canned map. If I am only going to gain 10-12hp and 10 ft lbs of torque with the engine/cam kit and D&D setup for well over $2000.00 I will stick with the simple upgrades for now and POSSIBLY change some stuff in the future. There is NO WAY I will let this tuner try to fool with the TTS software since all he knows is the race tuner and will be a total waste of money IMO.

I am leaning towards the entire Fullsac stage II setup with the Andrews cams. The reviews seem to be very positive and I will actually SAVE some money depending on what the dealer charges me to install the cams. Has anyone actually verified/confirmed the numbers that are posted on Fullsac's website ? If those are really the numbers (102hp / 120 ft lbs torque) I am SOLD.

[Fullsac Performance]

Thanks for the input from everyone. I am going to speak with Steve from Fullsac on Monday and hopefully he will be able to steer me in the right direction. I am also open to the option of going with the TTS and eliminating the engine kit with SERT. That will give me around $1200.00 plus labor back in my pocket and the TTS is around $450.00. It seems that a lot of owners have had incredible seat of their pants results from simply using the Fullsac X pipe, 2" baffles, and the TTS with a canned map. If I am only going to gain 10-12hp and 10 ft lbs of torque with the engine/cam kit and D&D setup for well over $2000.00 I will stick with the simple upgrades for now and POSSIBLY change some stuff in the future. There is NO WAY I will let this tuner try to fool with the TTS software since all he knows is the race tuner and will be a total waste of money IMO.

I am leaning towards the entire Fullsac stage II setup with the Andrews cams. The reviews seem to be very positive and I will actually SAVE some money depending on what the dealer charges me to install the cams. Has anyone actually verified/confirmed the numbers that are posted on Fullsac's website ? If those are really the numbers (102hp / 120 ft lbs torque) I am SOLD.

Copout
If you decide to stay with this mechanic, be sure you don't use the same heads and cams from his last build.
You can learn alot from the mistakes of others.

Steve George
 Fullsac Performance

[JCZ]

Copout
If you decide to stay with this mechanic, be sure you don't use the same heads and cams from his last build.
You can learn alot from the mistakes of others.

Steve George
 Fullsac Performance

Well said!  And he said it without trying to talk you into his products.......but I will.

D&D are considerably louder (and much more $$) than the Fullsac X pipe and Fullsac baffles.  If you haven't rode with Thunderheader for the past couple decades, your hearing might be able to tolerate, even like the D&D.  But if you want something in the mid volumne range, no long ride droan, much more affordable and still get great performance also.....do what the majority have done.....Fullsac!

I'm going to go a step further.....cause Steve is a nice guy (I really am too, in spite of what you may have heard  )  I'd suggest getting your motor work done by somebody that makes their living doing "performance" work and not just selling it's customers another bolt on part.  Educate yourself....give Steve a call and ask him the pros and cons of each package.....then call some of the other reputable motorheads (that make a living doing "performance" mods) on this forum and ask them the same thing.

They're going to ask you a few questions (that your dealership should have already asked you) like what style of riding do you normally do?  Solo riding or two up?  Are you looking for a drag strip, wheelie bike (performance is top goal) or something you can do a lot of long haul touring on (reliability s top goal), etc.

Good luck with what ever you do.  Be sure to keep us posted on your mods.

[copout221]

Well said!  And he said it without trying to talk you into his products.......but I will.

D&D are considerably louder (and much more $$) than the Fullsac X pipe and Fullsac baffles.  If you haven't rode with Thunderheader for the past couple decades, your hearing might be able to tolerate, even like the D&D.  But if you want something in the mid volumne range, no long ride droan, much more affordable and still get great performance also.....do what the majority have done.....Fullsac!

I'm going to go a step further.....cause Steve is a nice guy (I really am too, in spite of what you may have heard   )  I'd suggest getting your motor work done by somebody that makes their living doing "performance" work and not just selling it's customers another bolt on part.  Educate yourself....give Steve a call and ask him the pros and cons of each package.....then call some of the other reputable motorheads (that make a living doing "performance" mods) on this forum and ask them the same thing.

They're going to ask you a few questions (that your dealership should have already asked you) like what style of riding do you normally do?  Solo riding or two up?  Are you looking for a drag strip, wheelie bike (performance is top goal) or something you can do a lot of long haul touring on (reliability s top goal), etc.

Good luck with what ever you do.  Be sure to keep us posted on your mods.

I agree 100%. My 2007 FLHTCUSE2 had Rinehart true duals, Ness big sucker, redshift 575 cam, and SERT with custom dynoed map. I was really satisfied with the overall results of the mods and really don't need much more with this 2010. If I can increase the low/mid torque pull and get some more volume from the exhaust I will be happy. I don't need a big engine build for radical performance and bragging rights. I simply want the same or a bit more than what my last machine had without breaking the bank. I like to drive/ride like a civilized human being but also love to have the EXTRA for when some people want to present a challenge or I need the "get up and go" for merging into traffic, catching up to the pack, etc. This is why my daily driver cage is a 425hp Jeep SRT8 that is both civilized and radical when I need it to be.

I already told the service manager at the dealership (yesterday) to 86 the engine kit and super tuner. I know the mechanic will have his reservations about my decision but I am NOT going to listen to one guy compared to a community of other CVO owners who have nothing but positive things to report on different configurations. I am also NOT convinced (based on my hours of research) that a high comp piston kit is not what I need and I really think it will be unnecessary and overkill. I'm sure the mechanic has had some good results with the high compression kits and engine builds since he as an incredible reputation and is very knowledgable but I don't think it's the right setup for my  me and my riding style.

Steve, if you read this I will be calling you first thing Monday morning to order the remainder of what I need for the stage II. I am just hoping the items are in stock since the paint will be done on the Tuesday and that is when the mechanic was planning on doing the motor work. I will let him put the cam and head gaskets in and will try the supplied map for a while. This will not only save me some money but most likely aggravation and time.

On a side note: I won't even consider using Rinehart or Zippers products again due to very bad experiences with those products on my last machine. So I am open to almost anything else except for products from those two manufacturers.

[TwoToes]

I have the D&D 2-1 with the ghost pipe. I wanted to go black and if I went with the Fullsac set up I would have to spend more $$$ for black heat shields and a black slip on so the cost of the D&D in black and ghost pipe was almost equal to going with Fullsac in black. If you want the stock look, Fullsac will fit. Performance wise I have heard that Fullsac is good, I don't know since I don't have their system. A lot of folks on this site have Fullsac and I have not read anything bad about them. The D&D 2-1 did increase my power and performance. Don't know what numbers I have because I did not need a dyno (see below). As far as sound, D&D has two models, loud (with baffle) and louder (without baffle) !!! I ordered the one with the baffle. Not sure if they mixed up my order because the one I got it is somewhat loud. Had Reinhearts before and the D&D is much louder. So if you don't like loud don't get the D&D!! As far as the SERT or TTS, I got the ThunderMax Autotuner. It replaces your stock ECM instead of remapping it. You can order it with a download for your setup already installed. No dyno is needed so even tho it costs more with the savings of not having to pay for the cost of a dyno again you equal out. Also if you make new mods later it will self adjust and no new dyno is required. And if you dyno it at sea level (where I live) and then travel across Colorado it adjusts itself as you ride for the elevation. Another plus is that if you have to go back to stock (Calif is trying to pass smog checks for bikes) you simply replace the stock ECM and pipes, get your smog check, and reinstall the ThunderMax and D&D pipes. Take your time, read a lot of the posts on this site, talk to a lot of people, look at other bikes and what they have and sound like when you are out riding, then decide what YOU want. Good luck. Hope this helps. And let us know what you end up doing.

[copout221]

I have the D&D 2-1 with the ghost pipe. I wanted to go black and if I went with the Fullsac set up I would have to spend more $$$ for black heat shields and a black slip on so the cost of the D&D in black and ghost pipe was almost equal to going with Fullsac in black. If you want the stock look, Fullsac will fit. Performance wise I have heard that Fullsac is good, I don't know since I don't have their system. A lot of folks on this site have Fullsac and I have not read anything bad about them. The D&D 2-1 did increase my power and performance. Don't know what numbers I have because I did not need a dyno (see below). As far as sound, D&D has two models, loud (with baffle) and louder (without baffle) !!! I ordered the one with the baffle. Not sure if they mixed up my order because the one I got it is somewhat loud. Had Reinhearts before and the D&D is much louder. So if you don't like loud don't get the D&D!! As far as the SERT or TTS, I got the ThunderMax Autotuner. It replaces your stock ECM instead of remapping it. You can order it with a download for your setup already installed. No dyno is needed so even tho it costs more with the savings of not having to pay for the cost of a dyno again you equal out. Also if you make new mods later it will self adjust and no new dyno is required. And if you dyno it at sea level (where I live) and then travel across Colorado it adjusts itself as you ride for the elevation. Another plus is that if you have to go back to stock (Calif is trying to pass smog checks for bikes) you simply replace the stock ECM and pipes, get your smog check, and reinstall the ThunderMax and D&D pipes. Take your time, read a lot of the posts on this site, talk to a lot of people, look at other bikes and what they have and sound like when you are out riding, then decide what YOU want. Good luck. Hope this helps. And let us know what you end up doing.

Thanks for the info. The D&D is what I was originally going to go with but I was turned off by the cost of the system with the ghost pipe. $1300.00 was way too much IMO so I eliminated that possibility. The T-Max will NEVER go on another bike I own. I did buy one back in 2008 and it left me on the side of the road while on a trip which made me furious. I was forced to have a dealer in Ohio remove the T-Max while my wife overnighted my stock ECM to me. Then I had to pay MORE labor to have that local dealer install my stock ECM and O2 sensors along with fabricating me a custom map on a dyno. In all, it cost me over $2800.00 thanks to the Thundermax replacement ECM. It could not handle the heat and could have easily ruined my engine so I won't do business with Zippers again. Zippers DID refund my $1400.00 for the system and apologized for the mishap. They have great customer service but I had been warned by others about replacing the stock ECM with something else and felt like an idiot when my ignorance to listen ruined a road trip for our group.

[TwoToes]

Wow, sorry to hear that. I have only had mine a couple of weeks. How long did you have yours before it malfunctioned? I am planning a couple of cross country trips this summer and will pack my stock ECM and take it with me on the road now.

[copout221]

Wow, sorry to hear that. I have only had mine a couple of weeks. How long did you have yours before it malfunctioned? I am planning a couple of cross country trips this summer and will pack my stock ECM and take it with me on the road now.

I bought it at least a month before leaving for the trip and ran the chit out of the bike before leaving. The day we left it was almost 95 degrees with 100% humidity. The bike ran perfectly until we hit bumper to bumper traffic near Hammond Indiana. If you have never been to Hammond I would strongly recommend that you stay on the highway and drive straight through. So while we were sitting on the interstate the bike stalled and I immediately knew something was wrong. I attempted to start it back up and it started to surge at idle. So as I attempted to give it gas it stalled out again, and again, and again, until I was forced to push my $34,000.00 CVO with my feet as the traffic moved several feet every couple of minutes. After pushing the bike for about 1/2 mile I was PISSED OFF beyond comprehension and pushed it onto the shoulder. After freaking out and taking some advice from my buddies the ECM must have cooled down and the bike started up and ran fine. We exited the highway and found a gas station where I topped off the tank with fresh fuel and was approached by two people who wanted to sell me Vicodin   (Like I said, I was in Hammond Indiana). So we got back onto the highway and rode the shoulder since I figured the issue was heat related and the moving air could help. After getting the bike back up to speed it seemed to be running great until an hour later after entering Ohio when all of my warning lights came on and the speedo and tach dropped to zero   even though I was doing 85mph. So we stopped again on the shoulder and one of guys in the group said "I bet it's that new computer you paid too much money for" and I agreed. So I pulled the access cover and left it off as we continued to ride without any more issues other than my gauges and warning lamps (including the oil pressure) being inop. After we arrived at our destination I was able to get a call back from Zippers Performance who wanted to argue the issue with me about the problem being with their ECM. So after they convinced me that the problem was NOT with the ECM I rode the bike that evening without any issues until the next day when the heat kicked in. It started to stall and did not want to idle so I went to a local dealership (name withheld) who basically bent me over and laughed all the way to the bank. After my wife overnighted my stock ECM I was forced to buy a race tuner and get the bike dynoed since I had a cam, high flow, and true duals. After that expensive and frustrating experience the bike ran perfectly (except for some excessive pinging from the crappy map I had just paid for  ) for the next four days and 2,000 miles. After returning I sent the map to a member on this forum who tweaked it and I never fooled with it again.

So even if you carry your stock ECM you will need to swap out the O2 sensors and associated wiring with the stock sensors (which I did not have with me either) along with having a race tuner or power-commander to richen up your fuel.

Zippers did refund all of my $$ for the T-Max but would not help me out with the associated labor charges that I had paid.