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Author Topic: Is something wrong!!!  (Read 4894 times)

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HD Street Performance

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2011, 10:36:58 AM »

OK there's your problem
Take the cam cover off and retrace your steps by pulling the cam plate.

I suggest the following:
1 Put the stock relief spring back in
2 Change to a Baisley relief spool, be sure the spool works freely in the bore no hangups, the part has a better finish and will truely seal for better oil pressure and less bleed back to inlet side
3 Check the oil pump gears and housing for wear and proper assembly order, replace as required with stock parts
4 Mike the cam plate bushing and check for wear, replace as required with stock parts (this part will not be worn unless the crank has sizeable runout)
5 Check the crank runout, both sides pinion and sprocket, repair if required (IMO equal to or over .006" runout)
6 Reassemble cam plate assy.with a new OEM oil pump case oring 11293 and lube it with white litium grease or Dow Corning #55 Oring          lubricant
7 Use new cam plate orings 11301 (2)
8 Align the oil pump following the service manual method by turning the motor, with lifters out you can use the starter ( I do but there may be some pushback from others on this method) no tapered pins required and this method puts the pump where it wants to be not where the bolt holes are in relation to the scavenge spigot
9. Reassemble and check oil level, leave 1/2 qt low cold

Ride and recheck for sumping. 1-4oz is normal on these late models.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 08:34:32 PM by Deweysheads »
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Unbalanced

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2011, 07:32:56 PM »

Dewey resprectfully I have not seen 1 to 4 on the late models i usually see over 6 oz with them.   on the old models we typically saw 1 to 3 oz.   I hate to see this guy tear it appart and not find a problem.   Maybe one of the other builders will chime in as well.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2011, 11:10:02 PM »

"H-D considers 8oz, drained from the sump, to be the threshold for "wetsumped". This is fairly close to the amount we have found to affect hp on our dyno. In a controlled test/method, we were able to see repeatable hp losses at 6 3/4 oz and above. The 1 1/4 difference could be explained due to methodology or criteria."
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HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2011, 06:40:55 AM »

At 8 oz's, I'd not, be pulling the cam chest open whatsoever.
I'll add that you don't want any more than that, but wouldn't warrant that action here.
Scott
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2011, 06:44:48 PM »

Lots of opinions on the topic
Here is Feulings
To verify if engine is wet sumping, run engine to operating temperature then shut down and pull the allen head plug from bottom of- engine case.  Measure oil and if more than 5oz. drains from the sump then there is a wet sumping issue.

8 is not life threatening
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Unbalanced

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2011, 08:16:07 PM »

I would agree that 5 is bad if you were talking pre 07 engines.   
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sadunbar

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2011, 08:27:22 PM »

Check to verify your outer cam chain (cam to crank) isn't off a tooth (advanced).  Symptoms would be heat and loss of low end power.
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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2011, 08:32:27 PM »

Before you go taking it apart, you could verify what Sandubar is saying with a compression test.  The cylinder pressure should/would be lower if you were off a tooth.   Could very well happen with a cam plate change.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2011, 08:55:49 PM »

I thought an earlier intake close and open would add cylinder pressure, but then again one tooth is a bunch maybe 15° I would have to count the teeth?? But nonetheless worth a try to check.
If it were mine I would just go in, it is not hard on the late models and then be sure. Trimming any sump oil possible is beneficial especially sitting on the top of the scale, I believe Mike Stegman and I know he aquires this data from actual testing, and if hp is taking a hit the oil is being super heated which entrains air. For some empirical evidence after verifying the compression / timing theory, take a look at the oil hot, is it aerated? Looking at it in the tank will tell the story.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 09:00:26 PM by Deweysheads »
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spydglide

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2011, 09:34:25 PM »

I thought an earlier intake close and open would add cylinder pressure, but then again one tooth is a bunch maybe 15° I would have to count the teeth?? But nonetheless worth a try to check.
If it were mine I would just go in, it is not hard on the late models and then be sure. Trimming any sump oil possible is beneficial especially sitting on the top of the scale, I believe Mike Stegman and I know he aquires this data from actual testing, and if hp is taking a hit the oil is being super heated which entrains air. For some empirical evidence after verifying the compression / timing theory, take a look at the oil hot, is it aerated? Looking at it in the tank will tell the story.
Is it abnormal to have some aeration (small bubbles) in the hot oil?  How much would indicate a problem?  spyder
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Big C.

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2011, 09:35:12 PM »

  Had time for a quick compression test and a quick 20 min. ride.  Compression was good and the oil in the tank was clear and golden with a few bubbles floating on top.  Not foamy bubbles they were small clear bubbles off to the back side of the fill hole.  
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 10:34:38 PM by Big C. »
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Big C.

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2011, 11:09:13 PM »

  Here is a few shots of my assembly showing the timing marks.  I think they they look good?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 11:18:44 PM by Big C. »
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Big C.

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2011, 11:14:36 PM »

2
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2011, 11:17:09 PM »

They all have some aeration but the worst of them are a frothy mess.
Cam timing is right on
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Big C.

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Re: Is something wrong!!!
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2011, 11:32:37 PM »

  I thought so but was worth a second check.  Taking a few pics along the way have saved my ass a few times its one of those things I need to do and reference once in a while still just a rookie and always learning.  But the more I learn I realize how little I really know. 
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