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Author Topic: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner  (Read 10064 times)

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Brian22601

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Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« on: June 29, 2011, 07:47:05 PM »

I searched threads and did not see any previous discusions about the Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner.  Cobra claims it "learns" in all riding environments and makes fuel management changes/corrections on the fly.  The older Cobra product line required manual adjustments.  The PowrPro is said to be "plug&play" for ~$599.00.

I am the second owner of an FXSTSSE2.  The original owner bought V&H 2 to 2 Big Radius pipes from the Harley dealer and had the dealer install them (on record).  The dealer has no sales information of a fuel management system being purchased nor do they have a record of performing a dyno for the original owner.  I have not had any luck tracking down the original owner and I have looked and do not see any fuel management system from V&H installed.

My scoot pops, snaps, bangs, and cracks on deceleration leading me to believe it is in need of fuel management/tune.  A non-Harley local shop sells TTS Master Tuner and will include the dyno run/tune for about the same $600.00 bucks.  The shop will NOT provide the "map" on CD and I would have to return to them for future mapping or remapping if needed.

Has anyone installed a Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro ?

I don't race, nor do I have a need for absolute perfection, but I would like to tame the wild noises when deceleration takes place.  

Lastly, I don't want to be beholden to a local speed shop and their dyno charges.

Any advise or suggestions?

« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 07:49:34 PM by Brian22601 »
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2smoke

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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2011, 01:18:42 PM »

I do not use the fuel pak you speak of but I know of people that do and they say it works well.  For something as basic as the addition of pipes I think this product can do the job.  If you want to squeeze every last bit of power from your bike you will have to step up to a tuner and a custom map.
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kerb

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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 12:47:24 PM »

I searched threads and did not see any previous discusions about the Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner.  Cobra claims it "learns" in all riding environments and makes fuel management changes/corrections on the fly.  The older Cobra product line required manual adjustments.  The PowrPro is said to be "plug&play" for ~$599.00.

I am the second owner of an FXSTSSE2.  The original owner bought V&H 2 to 2 Big Radius pipes from the Harley dealer and had the dealer install them (on record).  The dealer has no sales information of a fuel management system being purchased nor do they have a record of performing a dyno for the original owner.  I have not had any luck tracking down the original owner and I have looked and do not see any fuel management system from V&H installed.

My scoot pops, snaps, bangs, and cracks on deceleration leading me to believe it is in need of fuel management/tune.  A non-Harley local shop sells TTS Master Tuner and will include the dyno run/tune for about the same $600.00 bucks.  The shop will NOT provide the "map" on CD and I would have to return to them for future mapping or remapping if needed.

Has anyone installed a Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro ?

I don't race, nor do I have a need for absolute perfection, but I would like to tame the wild noises when deceleration takes place.  

Lastly, I don't want to be beholden to a local speed shop and their dyno charges.

Any advise or suggestions?



They won't provide the map?  Assuming I were to go with the TTS, I'd definitely find a different dealer/tuner.  There's absolutely no reason they shouldn't provide you the map.  Huge red flag in my mind.
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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2011, 04:09:54 PM »


Read the sales literature very carefully for that Cobra FI2000 PowerPro, especially the parts where they gloss over what it doesn't do.  It doesn't monitor AFR's via the oxygen sensors, in fact it doesn't monitor much at all other than throttle position and rpm, and it doesn't seem to affect anything other than acceleration based on their own writeup.  So your steady cruise tune won't change from stock, and your decel popping is unlikely to be affected either.  This product is not the same as their older FI2000 with the adjustable pots for low speed, cruise, and wide open throttle.  It appears to be an attempt to cash in on the "auto tune" craze, but it doesn't have anywhere near the capabilties of the other choices available.

I agree that any shop that won't give you a copy of the map is a shop I'd avoid, but if you go with the TTS it's not a big deal.  You can download the software from the TTS site and use it plus the VCI (dongle) to download the map to your computer all by yourself.  In fact, it's a good idea to save the stock map before they do the tune, which the TTS also lets you do.  Just make certain they give you the VCI, you're paying for it and it's married to your ECM.


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Brian22601

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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2011, 05:53:57 PM »

Thanks for the great advice!

I have not been back to the speed shop that said they would tune it on a Dyno, but not give me a copy of the map burned to a CD -- I recall him saying that it would be counter productive for them because they fear I would post the map for others to use.  Althought they would keep it in a safe place for me :).

I did contact Cobra about their newest Fi2000 unit that stays on the bike and "tunes while you drive".  They do not list the FXSTSSE2 on their web site and I ask why?  They replied saying that I need to take my bike to the dealer to confirm that the wiring harness used on my FXSTSSE2 was the same as a normal softail -- If yes, I could purchase the unit they sell for the 2008 Softail.

Since then another CVO Forum member told me that he bought a CVO Convt. and the first Cobra Fi2000 unit he bought was not compatible with his bike because they built his CVO Convt. with a "Touring harness".

So now my question is: Did HD build the FXSTSSE2 with a non-Softail wiring harness?

I plan to take the bike to the dealer, but I wanted to ask others here what their experience has been with non-standard wiring harnesses.....
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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2011, 10:48:15 PM »

If you purchase TTS at that shop and let them tune..  Then you can hook up YOUR TTS to a laptop and download/save the map yourself... and do what ever you wish with it...  unless the shop makes you sign some contract that says you can't... and that's an even bigger red flag.
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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2011, 11:37:09 PM »

 I would not use the shop that will not give you a copy of your tune. You also need to be able to save and have your factory tune. Something fishy sounding there. The cobra tuner is not that great of a tuner for the money. You can do better. If you are somewhat mechanically inclined, you can do the TTS yourself. If you do not feel comfortable, take it to the HD dealer and have them at least install a Screaming Eagle pro super tuner. They can load you a canned map that will get you in the ball park. Then you can either have them dyno it for you or find a good Indy that will do a good dyno for you.
 I have a friend that has a 07 like yours, he tried the cobra and never got it to work right. He finally went with the sepst and now is real happy.  Good luck. Ask around on here for a good tuner in your area. Is Groves close to you? I have heard they are a good dealer. Just a option.
 Best of luck.
 Ray
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Brian22601

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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2011, 11:50:17 PM »

The more recommendations you guys make -- the more red flags I see!

By that I mean, during my conversation with the shop manager he said they "keep" the TTS at the shop "labled for each customer on the shelf to ensure the customers don't misplace them"....."that way you know where it is when it's time for a new tune".

Keep in mind that I know nothing about dynos, tuning, and maps -- so I asked questions during the conversation, but didn't understand the meaning of their answers until you guys help thread it all together for me.  I did read a forum posting where a CVO owner was not happy that he couldn't get his custom map burned to a CD when he dealt with another shop.  So I asked this shop if they would burn it a CD -- they said "no, because I could distribute the map to others, defeating their business model".  Then he add the BS about storing the TTS for "safe keeping".

I am convinced to stay away from that shop altogether.

So I need to do some more research on the TTS.  From what you guys are saying I could get a TTS, save my original map to my harddrive in the event I need to regress back to the original baseline.  After that I could then find a map (perhaps in this forum) that meets my needs (V&H Big Radius is the only mod) and upload it into the CVO Springer, and never even put it on a dyno....am I understanding that correctly????

Remember -- I am only trying to resolve the nasty cracking and popping during deceleration....

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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2011, 11:56:18 PM »

Call Fullsac and talk to Steve about buying a TTS....if he has a map close to your setup, he will send it to you when you buy the TTS from him and you can upload it and ride. And you hold on to your own dongle when you are done!!! I would stay FAR away from the shop that you are describing!

http://www.fullsac.com
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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 09:48:24 AM »

The more recommendations you guys make -- the more red flags I see!

By that I mean, during my conversation with the shop manager he said they "keep" the TTS at the shop "labled for each customer on the shelf to ensure the customers don't misplace them"....."that way you know where it is when it's time for a new tune".
...
You paid for it and being the responsible adult you are... aren't you better to maintain your property then the shop/dealer? :nixweiss: Also what happens if you are on the road and for some reason you want to adjust/retune your bike? Along with that what happens if something happens to your TTS/ECM electronics/software will glitch and to have the proper equipment to "reboot/retune/tune" your bike will be beneficial for it to be in your possession. I have a SERT on my bike and when I travel I carry my "dongle" along with me just for the reasons stated above.

.... 
So I asked this shop if they would burn it a CD -- they said "no, because I could distribute the map to others, defeating their business model".  Then he add the BS about storing the TTS for "safe keeping".
....
Are they going to charge you for this tune (or are they tuning it for free if so then in that case maybe it would be their property)? If so then you've paid for it and IMO you should receive a copy. For the some of the same reasons I mentioned above if you have a copy of the tune if something should go wrong while on the road having the "dongle" and a copy of your tune will allow you to reinstall it.

.....
I am convinced to stay away from that shop altogether.
Hell yea!!!!

......
So I need to do some more research on the TTS.  From what you guys are saying I could get a TTS, save my original map to my harddrive in the event I need to regress back to the original baseline.  After that I could then find a map (perhaps in this forum) that meets my needs (V&H Big Radius is the only mod) and upload it into the CVO Springer, and never even put it on a dyno....am I understanding that correctly????

Remember -- I am only trying to resolve the nasty cracking and popping during deceleration....
You will want to save a copy of the original map/tune in your bike and once you tune it to your liking save a copy of that also. The original tune/map will allow you to return your bike to factory specifications if it is needed to go back to the dealer for warranty issues, and the map you tune your bike to will allow you to reinstall it if something were ever to go wrong and it needed to be reinstalled.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2011, 01:00:13 PM »

If you purchase the TTS "dongle", and the cable to go from your laptop to the dongle, then from the dongle to the ECM data  port, it won't make any difference if they burn a CD for you or not because you can simply hook up when you get back home, upload the MAP that's in the ECM, and burn your own copy to a CD.  I'd probably give Steve at Fullsac a call and see if he has a map for your bike/exhaust...it is likely to be so close to 100% right that you will not even need a tune on a Dyno.  If you have a laptop, the cables, and the TTS, you're good to go.

This is another viable alternative:  http://www.revperf.com/Precision/index.html

With this, you change out the stock O2 sensors for their wide band sensors, send your ECM to them, they do their mods to the ECM, you install everything back in the bike per the instructions, crank it up and it adjusts everything.  There's a thread here on this system:  http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=58189.0   It's 14 pages long.
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CVOThunder

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Re: Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2011, 02:30:50 PM »

copied from another website and I believe it's from the Suzuki M109 site. Might be some differences when used on Harley engines but principles should be close to the same.

"Well, I emailed Cobra yesterday asking some specific questions that were basically the same questions you guys have been asking about here.
This is the response I received.
To answer some of the questions that have been posted here. It seems it use the measurement of how hard a cylinder
accelerates the crankshaft as a way to correct fuel mixture."

"thanks for your questions and for your forum's interest in the new
Fi2000 PowrPro Tuner. This really is a phenominal product in every way. And
how it works through its Patent Pending technology is really quite simple.
But it's difficult for people to grasp because previous Fi tuning products,
even so-called auto tune units, were headed in a completely different
direction. What we've done is taken all the data that you get from a dyno
and sourced it from the motorcycle itself, then made almost instantaneous
calibrations to achieve the best power/acceleration.

I've provided some information below taken from a section of a white-paper
that we've developed to help people understand how this product works, and
why it works so well.

But remember, this only corrects fuel. It does not correct poor product
choices or combinations (say a high flow air filter with restrictive exhaust
pipes). It does not alter timing. And the Continuously Variable Tuning
feature works under acceleration only. So I hope the following information
helps your forum members understand how revolutionary this product is.


When a cylinder fires, it accelerates the crankshaft slightly. Every engine
has some kind of torsional shock absorber between crank and gearbox, which
is there to accommodate this slight variation in crank speed. With
the application of modern high-speed electronics, we access this information
and time the rotation of the crank from one firing to the next, and analyze
whether the next firing is slightly stronger or weaker than the previous
one.

Now comes the clever part: using the measurement of how hard a cylinder
accelerates the crankshaft as a way to correct fuel mixture. If the mixture
is a bit lean and our system adjusts it to be a bit richer at the next
firing, more power will be produced and the piston will give the crank a
slightly stronger kick. We can use this as a tool to move from whatever
fuel mixture the engine is actually receiving, toward a more efficient
mixture.

The next step is a way to time the rotations of the crank, so crank speed at
one firing can be compared with crank speed at the next firing. Fortunately,
bike manufacturers give us this info for free<as the time from the beginning
of one fuel-injection squirt to the beginning of the next one, 720 crank
degrees later. Yes, the engine¹s other cylinder may be slowing the crank by
being on its compression stroke, but all we need is comparative information.
We also need to experiment with fuel mixture, just as race tuners or EFI
programmers do. If we make the mixture a little leaner and the next crank
cycle takes a little bit longer than before, we know we¹re going the wrong
way. This is just like what old time race tuners did by changing carburetor
jets and then looking at the bike¹s quarter mile ET or lap time. However, in
the case of the Fi2000 PowrPro, this process now occurs up to 80 times per
second<it¹s literally Continuously Variable Tuning.

The Fi2000 PowrPro conducts its fuel-mixture tuning by varying the mixture
slightly. If the crank moves a tiny bit faster when the mixture leans out
slightly, the PowrPro knows that¹s the right direction and the system leans
the mixture again<or vice-versa. With a big twin cylinder engine turning
5000 rpm, one cylinder is giving us 42 of these opportunities to tune fuel
mixture every second. The result is that the Fi2000 PowrPro continuously and
quickly drives fuel mixture to the value that gives best power. This process
allows the system to adapt to any engine modifications you make. It¹s like
going to the drag strip with a stopwatch and boxes of carburetor jets more
than 80 times every second.

When this system was still in its initial planning stages, one option under
consideration was to use this data to create a new conventional fuel map
similar to the one programmed into the engine¹s stock E FI, and then to
periodically update it. That turned out to be unnecessary because
Continuously Variable Tuning does the same job without the expense and
complication of storing, updating and retrieving data to or from a fuel map.
CVT is a continuous mixture-correcting process, not a fixed set of values
³in a can,² like that of the stock EFI system or previous EFI tuning
systems. Instead, CVT operates continuously every time the bike accelerates."
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