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[tunedse2]

I have 2200, 1200 since the 1k service, and my oil is black. Should I let it go 1800 more. I've never used the HD syn before, Is this normal?

[arcticdude]

I'd have to say it's normal.  I just did my 1000 yesterday and all 3 were pretty dark.  Theoretically, that's all the dirt being pulled out of your engine!  The moco has authorized a 5000 mi (yikes!) interval with the syn3.  At $8+/qt, it ought to have a 10k interval!

[hd-dude]

I change my oil every 2500 miles regardless of how it looks. You should be fine until then.
PS; I am using Amsoil which also states that you can go 5k between changes

[jfscheck]

Been using it since it first came out - over 18,000 miles total on one bike running only Synth 3 - just had an oil analysis and it's still great!  Your good to go  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[grc]

tuned,

Absolutely normal for motor oil to turn dark as it accumulates miles.  That is both a reaction to heat and the "detergent" action of the oil picking up combustion byproducts and any contaminants.  The oil is designed to hold these contaminants in suspension, rather than let them settle to the bottom of the oil pan, crankcase, rocker boxes, etc., so that they will be removed either by the filter or when the oil is drained.  Pull the dipstick on your 4 wheeled vehicles after a couple thousand miles, and you will see the same darkening of the oil.

BTW - if you use a high quality synthetic, there is no need to change oil more often than specified in your owner's manual.  I always changed the conventional oil in my previous bikes at 2500 (and cars at 3000), but since I converted everything to Mobil 1 a few years back, the oil and filter get changed at 5000.

Jerry

[Midnight Rider]

According to my friend in the oil/chemical business, 5K is perfectly fine, particularly on our bikes, which have 3 holes...the crankcase being seperate from the tranny. If you want an oil analysis, PM me and I'll send you the info for the kit from his company.  The cost for the kit and analysis is $16...you can then establish a baseline so you'll know what, if anything, is happening down the road.  See the Synthetic Oil thread if you want to read more.

[ultrafxr]

According to my friend in the oil/chemical business, 5K is perfectly fine, particularly on our bikes, which have 3 holes...the crankcase being seperate from the tranny.

Only problem is I always manage to leave on a big road trip that'll put me over the top and I usually wind up changing b4 the 5k rolls around.  Just don't like having to interrupt the fun on the road for an oil change if it can be avoided.  But one of these days I'll hit it right and see if I can go the full 5k.  Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then. [smiley=banana.gif]

[Coolbreeze]

I know I will catch hell for this, but,  from the studies I have read, the most of the syn oils actually works it's best between 4k and 9k, and then start to break down slowly...  I change at 10 k, and have never had a problem.  My BMW is spec'd at 12k changes, and I have over 250k on that motor, still no probs...  

[Midnight Rider]

Cool...I don't doubt that a bit....The Subaru factory rep told me there was no need in changing my Castrol more often than 5k and could easily go 7.5K, depending on how much around town driving, as opposed to highway, and getting the engine really warmed up for at least 30+ minutes. When I do the next change, I switching to Mobil 1 in the car, so will definitely stretch it to 7.5K then.  My friend who is the Oil guru, recommends changing every 3 to 5k on my Ducati, but that's because it has straight cut tranny gears, and it's in the same sump as the engine, so bits of it wear off and get pumped through the engine...he recommends having the oil analysis when I near 6K to get a baseline for comparison, then another at 10K to compare and see if I can stretch it out.  The oil itself does not break down...it's the particles that are suspended that you have to worry about...the good news is the syn oils do a great job of suspending, so if you change oil when the temp is hot, you can be sure to get all the suspended paricles out, instead of them laying in the bottom of the crankcase, like the old days.  In HD motors, he says 5k is no problem at all, if you use a group IV or V syn oil, and 7.5K would be no worry either.  It's hard for me to break old habits, as I changed at 3K all my life, but I'm realizing that now days, I'm wasting the resource.

[gdkenoyer]

I know I will catch hell for this, but,  from the studies I have read, the most of the syn oils actually works it's best between 4k and 9k,

I definately won't give you hell, but I would be most interested to know what the studies say changes to make the Syns work better after the first 4k... [smiley=confused5.gif]
(running M1 VT in my scoot, btw)

[gdkenoyer]

... if you use a group IV or V syn oil

I know (or at least believe) that the HD SYN 3 is Type III (tweaked dino) and that Mobile 1 and AMSoil are Type IV (PAO), but have yet to see mention of a Type V (tho I know they exist, as noted here).  Do you happen to know which oils are Type V...?

[Midnight Rider]

I looked all over a bottle of Syn3 the other day and couldn't find a Group number on it anywhere...I would not be surprised if it were a tweaked dino oil.  I'm about to e-mail my oil guy and see what he says about the IV and V oils.  Will post when I get results.

[Midnight Rider]

OK...here's George's response to my questions: my questions are highlighted.

Regarding your questions:

"When they change all 3 holes, plus re-torque everything...I'm going to MAKE them put Mobil VTWIN 20w50 in her, though they will
probably squawk about warranty, etc.  Mobil 1 V-twin exceeds all manufacturer's recommendations so they CANNOT squawk. There is a federal law, with teeth, protecting you.  If Mobil 1 V-Twin is unacceptable, they must supply you with their required lubricant FREE...  Period...

On that train of thought, do you
have any information which would prove that Mobil VTWIN 20w50 and MX4T are superior to Syn 3?  Is Syn3 really just a "tweaked" dino, like
Shell? Unfortunately, no comparative data; frankly, we do not know who is blending/mfg 3 for HD now..  It falls under the heading "lowest bidder"..
 Are the two Mobil oils Group IV or V and what are the advantages of one over the other? Mobil 1 oils are Group IV.  There are many advantages and some differences between IV and V.Is Amsoil a Group IV or V? Group IV.

Hope I have answered your questions...  Again, sorry, but no one knows
who is packaging HD syn oil at this point.. The MSDS for the oil would
possibly give us some background but I do not have the time to
research..  Buried in projects at this point.