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[captdave221]

My friend wants me to build him a 120" motor since his SE stage 4 103" built badly 12,000 miles ago is trashed. The guide pin for the front lifters was dislodged on the initial assembly (I didn't do it)  and the front cyl. intake lifter roller was never lined up with the cam and the inner cam bearing finally went south. The casting piece that is opposite the flats on the lifters is bent forward in front of the intake lifter. The front cam inner bearing bore is also a bit oversized and not round anymore.   He wants to use the SE cases, SE 4 5/8" crank, SE 10.5 to 1 4.060 pistons, SE 4.060 cylinders. His 110+ heads will be used as they were not damaged. He wants the Wood 408-6 cam also.

I told him since he is not a wind it out to max rpm's kind of guy that cam is not his best choice. I am leaning to the Wood 400-6 but really would like to use the T-Man TR600SM cam since the lift is not as much and I really don't think the 110+ heads are really set up stock very well for a 650 lift cam. I want him to have gobs of torque 2000-3500 @ rpms since that is where he usually rides. He has the 58mm throttle body from the SE Stg 4 kit and high flow injectors and a Rinehart true duals.

The bike is a 2010 Street Glide by the way.

He has his stock heads that could be sent out to? (suggestions please) but really want to use his 110+ heads with the ACR's. Suggestions on oil pump, lifters, is the Timken conversion really needed in this instance? I wish the SE cases had it as a stock item.

[Mr D]

My friend wants me to build him a 120" motor since his SE stage 4 103" built badly 12,000 miles ago is trashed. The guide pin for the front lifters was dislodged on the initial assembly (I didn't do it)  and the front cyl. intake lifter roller was never lined up with the cam and the inner cam bearing finally went south. The casting piece that is opposite the flats on the lifters is bent forward in front of the intake lifter. The front cam inner bearing bore is also a bit oversized and not round anymore.   He wants to use the SE cases, SE 4 5/8" crank, SE 10.5 to 1 4.060 pistons, SE 4.060 cylinders. His 110+ heads will be used as they were not damaged. He wants the Wood 408-6 cam also.

I told him since he is not a wind it out to max rpm's kind of guy that cam is not his best choice. I am leaning to the Wood 400-6 but really would like to use the T-Man TR600SM cam since the lift is not as much and I really don't think the 110+ heads are really set up stock very well for a 650 lift cam. I want him to have gobs of torque 2000-3500 @ rpms since that is where he usually rides. He has the 58mm throttle body from the SE Stg 4 kit and high flow injectors and a Rinehart true duals.

The bike is a 2010 Street Glide by the way.

He has his stock heads that could be sent out to? (suggestions please) but really want to use his 110+ heads with the ACR's. Suggestions on oil pump, lifters, is the Timken conversion really needed in this instance? I wish the SE cases had it as a stock item.

R&R with a 120 R from the Mo Co 

[Half_Crazy]

If building one from his or swapping in a 120R... If it were mine it would get Timken/weld/plug/true on the crank. Cheap insurance that it will stay together, and it's always cheaper to do it while it's apart than to have it break later and take who-knows-what-else with it.

[grc]

Since it sounds like his stock cases are trashed, it would be a lot easier and probably cheaper to just buy a 120 crate engine and install it.  He can always swap the cams if he doesn't like what comes with the crate engine.


Jerry

[erniezap]

Like Half_crazy said

The 120 crate engine has the same crank/bearings as the 110's.  In my opinion I wouldn't install one without redoing the crank assembly

[grc]

Actually, the crank in the 120R is a 4.675 4.625" stroke with forged flywheels, and the 110 comes with the same 4.375" cast crank found in the TC96 and TC 103.  Not exactly same/same, but I think I understand the point both of you are making.  It's a pressed crankpin design, and with Harley's history, especially recent history, with pressed cranks I would also be a little leary of just throwing it in there out of the box.  Of course, if you buy the crate engine you would have to completely disassemble the entire engine in order to send the crank out for truing/welding/plugging/balancing, and that would add significantly to the cost.  I'll have to defer to those who have had real world experience with the 120R when it comes to just how necessary any crank work actually is; I have heard nothing about crank failures myself.


Jerry


Edit:  oops on the stroke number

[timtoolman]

I would use either the 408-6 or the 400-6, depends on what he wants, many builds have been done with the 408   The 400-6 cam is a torque cam, it will carry the torque out to around 5000 rpms , and if the heads are right they will carry the h.p. out  I use a 400-6 cam  Its carries a very  flat trq  out to 48000,  I have 110 ftlbs at 2800. A 120 should do better due to the increase in cubes, All depends on what he wants.  a 408-6 woods is a very good wind em out cam also!!!!!!! , He  may love it , But personally id use the 400-6   It will out "torque" the tman cam 600 sm easily  again tuned correctly  
 Timkens ??  eh  maybe  way to many big builds already getting no timkens  and surviving well,  Using the  2 Black  upgraded  S.E.  roller bearings and  very happy,  The most important thing there is crank alignment to increase survivability and plugged/welded , The S.E. rollers are a little more forgiving, But very strong also

And actually the stock, 96, 103, 110 crank  isnt cast, It's cold forged!!!!!

Heads???  Hillside cycle of course  

[sadunbar]

Actually, the crank in the 120R is a 4.675" 4.625" stroke with forged flywheels, and the 110 comes with the same 4.375" cast crank found in the TC96 and TC 103.  Not exactly same/same, but I think I understand the point both of you are making.  It's a pressed crankpin design, and with Harley's history, especially recent history, with pressed cranks I would also be a little leary of just throwing it in there out of the box.  Of course, if you buy the crate engine you would have to completely disassemble the entire engine in order to send the crank out for truing/welding/plugging/balancing, and that would add significantly to the cost.  I'll have to defer to those who have had real world experience with the 120R when it comes to just how necessary any crank work actually is; I have heard nothing about crank failures myself.


Jerry

 

[timtoolman]

i meant fly wheels, oops

[captdave221]

He told me last night he don't want to mod his 110+ heads. He wants to run them as they are. The price to buy 120 cases and crank and cyl's and pistons is less than a complete motor with my slave labor rate. We did decide to use the black bearing in both sides and the cam of his choosing is a TR-662-1. Going to use Cometic .030" 4.060 head gaskets and the new SE cam plate w/oil pump, stock 99-b lifters, Rivera taperlite pushrods with his SE roller rockers and SE forged rocker supports. Tuning will be with the SESRT he already has and exhaust is a fuelmoto headpipe with reinhart slip-ons. The cam bearings in these cases are SE full compliment ones made in China. Pulling them and gonna use genuine Torrington bearings. The old motor only saw redline on the dyno so I am not worried he will have issues with the stock 120 SE crank. Yes I wish he would send the heads to Hillside for reworking but he won't do that. Insists on leaving them stock for some reason. I see where Comp. Cams has beehive spring sets for the 5/16ths valves. Think they would b any quieter than the 3 piece spring?

[timtoolman]

Well he will still have fun with it, but!,  heads from a reputable  shop reworked will make it much better, And i'd use different lifters, Springs quiet?  depends on seat pressure and coil bind etc. for the cam lift

[HD Street Performance]

Buy the crate motor. Take the 110 heads down .040, use a .030hg. Buy S&S roller rockers. Do not change anything else. It will rip low high and everywhere in between.
Sell the MVA heads to recoup funds.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

.................but if those heads were re-worked, you can see another 25-27 cfm from them, gaining from .100" lift, and continuing to pull more and more as the lift increases.
Scott

[HD Street Performance]

The OP stated
"I want him to have gobs of torque 2000-3500 @ rpms since that is where he usually rides"

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Exactly why I made mention, of the cylinder head work.
Scott