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[hbens]

That is the same advise he gave me in going with the Dragula vs. Ken's pipe. I already have the Jackpot 2 into 1 on order with a scheduled delivery the first part of June. Frank said the Dragula could be shipped within a couple of weeks. He is up to his neck in shipping since he had a landslide of orders.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Hey Ken, I spoke to Frank today, but I'm still not sure whether to go with the Dragula with the 2.3" baffles, or the S/C/S-4 with the 2.55's.

He basically said the Dragula with the smaller 2.3" baffle would not be too much pipe for the 110, and is easier to tune.

The S/C/S-4 with the 2.55" baffle would be plenty of pipe for the 110, and either pipe could be made to handle more with a bigger baffle.

Looks wise, I prefer the S/C/S-4 because it's not overly fat, and the rear pipe isn't as twisted up looking.

He of course said you can't go wrong with either pipe, but recommended the Dragula.

So if you could do it over again, would you stick with your S/C/S-4, or would you get the Dragula?

Tough question...

Frank told me that low-end torque would be a little better with the S/C/S-4 than with the Dragula - due to the straight headers and the 2.55" collector. I need more low-end torque because of the performance characteristics of the 54H cams I am running - they don't really come in until around 2700 RPM.

Either pipe is more than enough for a 110". The Dragula can accommodate monster engines making a LOT more HP than you will ever produce with a normally-aspirated 110". Frank says the S/C/S-4 can handle 130 HP... which is fine for me.

I would probably do it again... I like the S/C/S-4... it looks great, sounds great, and performs great.

[North Star]

Another difference is that Frank said the Dragula's sound more like a Thunderheader because of the stepped pipes. Mind you with the Dragula I'd be going to the smaller baffle vs the S/C/S-4, so it might be too quiet for me. I should have mentioned I don't mind a bit of sound, and the deeper the better.

Speaking of sound, thanks for that sound clip. Funny you say it sounds much meaner in person- I thought it sounded real good even over the computer. To me at idle, you can still hear both cylinders independently, I guess at speed is when that smooth, un-Rinehart like 2-1 sound comes on?

I do like the look of the rear pipe much better on the S/C/S-4, and I'm fine with it not being as fat looking as the Dragula. I don't know 

Hell, I haven't even decided if it's worth switching from my Fullsac x pipe and Rinehart 4's- I think the fact that I want a dyno tune makes more sense to me if I do it in combination with some other performance mod like this- sort of justifies the travel to PA and the money rather than just going all that way for just a dyno tune.

Faceracer (from the RG forum but I think he's on here too), has the same OB SERG as me, and just got the Dragula-he loves it too. Actually Ken, he has the identical mod's as you I believe (Andrews 54 and .030 gaskets), except he hasn't had it dyno tuned. He's from down your way- maybe you two should have a dyno show down and see which pipe wins 

[North Star]

Just a bump for this thread for some more/updated Drago info- Ken must have went on a long ride 

[North Georgia Hawg]

Just a bump for this thread for some more/updated Drago info- Ken must have went on a long ride 

I've been on the forum every day, but it didn't show that this thread had any updates until your post today.

Anyway, yeah when you get on it, the S/C/S-4 has a very different sound from anything I've heard... and I like the sound of it a lot. It's much louder than the Fullsac 2" baffles were at all RPMs and kPas.

The S/C/S-4 runs very well with the 54Hs and Cometic .030" gaskets. I still have a bunch more tuning to do though. VTune is NOT happy with the VE tables at all yet. I'm getting some sporadic decal popping - not bad but need to richen up the VE tables at low kPa to get rid of it.

We had crappy weather here this weekend - cold and rainy until today, and today it cleared up but is windy as hell... 20-25 MPH, with gusts up to 40 MPH. Not a good riding day.

Getting ready to install the chrome front calipers and polished rotors on Beyonce, my wife's Tri-GlideUltra, this evening. Have to run to the auto store to pick up some DOT 4 brake fluid... fun fun!   

[North Georgia Hawg]

I am now considering (based on TwoLaneRider's advice, and others' advice that I have read on various places), the Revolution Performance EMS.

Being a TTS guy up to now, with a perfectly functional TTS, I wonder just what IS it that you have to send the EMS to them for? I mean, if I buy this unit, I can use my TTS to flash in any starting map they want me to... so WHY do I have to send my EMS to them, for them to flash in their map? This concerns me... I'm not at all comfortable sending my factory EMS to ANYONE to do with what they will...

COMMENTS PLEASE???

[JCZ]

I am now considering (based on TwoLaneRider's advice, and others' advice that I have read on various places), the Revolution Performance EMS.

Being a TTS guy up to now, with a perfectly functional TTS, I wonder just what IS it that you have to send the EMS to them for? I mean, if I buy this unit, I can use my TTS to flash in any starting map they want me to... so WHY do I have to send my EMS to them, for them to flash in their map? This concerns me... I'm not at all comfortable sending my factory EMS to ANYONE to do with what they will...

COMMENTS PLEASE???

Kind of begs the question.....if the TTS is working for you, why change?

[BUBBLEHEAD]

And you can't send them your ems anyway. You'll have too buy a older one pre 2010 I think as there product does not work with the 2012 ems. When I last contacted them they had no plans on offering a 2012 compatable system.  Or did I miss something??

[North Georgia Hawg]

Kind of begs the question.....if the TTS is working for you, why change?

Well, the TTS itself is WORKING... but it's become a real PITA to have to do repeated DataMaster tuning runs to collect data, then use VTune to analyze the collected data from each run, then apply it to the .mtx map, then flash the improved map back into the ECM... and then repeat the entire process ad infinitum until the map is "close" enough... whatever "close enough" even means. This seems like an absolutely antique way to tune an engine in the year 2012. It seems like you're always guessing from the data that's been collected, as to what the map "should" be. There's GOT to be a more modern way to TUNE a Harley engine these days. If there isn't... then I'm SERIOUSLY going to consider chucking this whole Harley thing, selling my bike, and buying a damn V-Max that has 175 HP STOCK, for half the price, will do a sub-10 second QM, and will actually take curves at more than 50 MPH in the twisties.

The RP EMS seems like a modern, dynamic way to tune an engine as it is running, rather than collecting a bunch of historical data, then applying it to the map, and repeating the whole cycle numerous times until things are good enough. I am simply TIRED of doing all that crap to get my Harley engine to run decently...

And Mike... I believe you're thinking of the rumored changes in the 2013 Touring model, that will supposedly implement the HDLAN bus in the ECM that has been in the Softail models for awhile now. There has been no change in several years to the ECM in the Touring models to my knowledge, so there is no reason that the RP EMS would not work with the 2012 Touring model ECMs... including the SE models.

But I'll be calling them TOMORROW... with a number of questions... I see on their website that they also make Big Bore cylinders for the 110s... to bump up to 124 CI and 10.5 CR... heh heh. Those, and some headwork (or S&S HEADS), with the RP ECS... might just give me the THRILL I'm looking for from this beast.

I shoulda kept my 1985 Kawasaki ZL900 Eliminator.... that bike went 0-50 in 2.1 seconds, 0-60 in 2.7, 0-100 in under 10... and a sub-11 QM... Nobody EVER beat me on the street. 'Course, there was no place to store my HAT...

[SBB]

then I'm SERIOUSLY going to consider chucking this whole Harley thing, selling my bike, and buying a damn V-Max that has 175 HP STOCK, for half the price, will do a sub-10 second QM, and will actually take curves at more than 50 MPH in the twisties.

FYI
There is a V-Max forum, but I don't think they allow bolded print.

There has been no change in several years to the ECM in the Touring models to my knowledge,

And Mike is right but call Rev Perf so they can tell you Mike is right.

and will actually take curves at more than 50 MPH in the twisties.

That's strange, I didn't know a SESG couldn't take curves at more than 50 mph.
The 12 Screamin Eagle Road Glides will. I did a few hundred of them Tuesday on the Dragon.
Now that I think about it the 11.5 SEUC and the 01 SERG will also.
I know this is a wild thought but is it possible it's not the bike?

 

SBB

[SERK3]

If i go under 50 in the twisties mine wants to fall over 

[Twolanerider]

I believe you're thinking of the rumored changes in the 2013 Touring model, that will supposedly implement the HDLAN bus in the ECM that has been in the Softail models for awhile now. There has been no change in several years to the ECM in the Touring models to my knowledge, so there is no reason that the RP EMS would not work with the 2012 Touring model ECMs... including the SE models.

Unfortunately Revolution Performance doesn't offer the EMS package for 2011 and newer bikes.  Not because the module is physically any different but because the software loaded within it is different.  They never (yet) developed code for the 2011 ECMs and apparently have stopped trying.  I'm still a fan of the EMS package.  Really like what it does and how it does it; and the simplicity with which it does the work.  But at least as things are right now the company is not updating the product past what is available for the 2010 models.

[Midnight Rider]

If you don't plan on any more mods (and that seems to be a big IF), find a good tuner and let them dial it in and be done with it.  There's nothing wrong with the TTS, and as mentioned, the RP will NOT work with your 2012 unless you buy a 2010 EMS for replacement.  But that is totally doable.

Or, take a huge hit and sell the SG, then buy the bike of your choice.  Want a sport touring bike?  Look at the BMW's, Ducati Multistrada (for something REALLY different...150HP, selectable running/suspension modes).  A HD is not a state of the art motorcycle...never has been, never will be (IMO).  It is what it is, and most folks know that going in.  Like the ads say, it's a lifestyle.  If a person wants HP, great handling, and better HP to weight ratio's, HD is a poor choice.

Or, keep the SG and buy another bike to "play" on when desired.  If I could afford another bike in the garage, it would be a Duc...nothing else like them.

[North Georgia Hawg]

If you don't plan on any more mods (and that seems to be a big IF), find a good tuner and let them dial it in and be done with it.  There's nothing wrong with the TTS, and as mentioned, the RP will NOT work with your 2012 unless you buy a 2010 EMS for replacement.  But that is totally doable.

Or, take a huge hit and sell the SG, then buy the bike of your choice.  Want a sport touring bike?  Look at the BMW's, Ducati Multistrada (for something REALLY different...150HP, selectable running/suspension modes).  A HD is not a state of the art motorcycle...never has been, never will be (IMO).  It is what it is, and most folks know that going in.  Like the ads say, it's a lifestyle.  If a person wants HP, great handling, and better HP to weight ratio's, HD is a poor choice.

Or, keep the SG and buy another bike to "play" on when desired.  If I could afford another bike in the garage, it would be a Duc...nothing else like them.

Naa, I was just blowing off some steam. No way I would ever sell this bike. I'm going to be doing more TTS tuning this weekend, and moving to an MT8 map in which I can make cam and EGR adjustments. The tune is not even close now with the S/C/S-4 on the bike.

Do you know just what is different between the 2010 ECM and the 2011 and later ECMs? I was not aware of difference in the software... now I'm curious... thanks.

[sadunbar]

Naa, I was just blowing off some steam. No way I would ever sell this bike. I'm going to be doing more TTS tuning this weekend, and moving to an MT8 map in which I can make cam and EGR adjustments. The tune is not even close now with the S/C/S-4 on the bike.

Do you know just what is different between the 2010 ECM and the 2011 and later ECMs? I was not aware of difference in the software... now I'm curious... thanks.

My understanding, which is elementary at best, is the security code the MOCO has installed within the ECM to prevent tampering with the ECM operating software is different beyond 2010, and Rev. Perf. did not successfully crack the code to gain access to the software.

If I'm incorrect in my understanding, I'm sure a tuner expert will chime in and correct me...