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[Buffy]

[size=14]While doing my normal oil change (every 5K) I started by draining the primary (no problem), then the engine (no problem)  and finally the transmission.  IT CAME OUT GRAY!

Now, before I go on, I only use Syn 3 and have 25K on my scooter with no problems.  No noise, no gear changing problem, etc. But the check stick had gray foam on it and the drained oil was the same color.

Where in the heck could water be getting into the tranny?[/size]

[HDMonsterTorque]

Dipstick or breather hose??

[DCFIREMANN]

Dipstick or breather hose??

That is not uncommon. Can you spell condensation??? Sure you can. IMHO I would not run Syn3 in my trannie. You want a heavy gear case lube.Red line shock proof(heavy) or any syn 75/140. It will shift smoother and run cooler. The excessive heat is what causes the condensation.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Buffy]

[size=14]Thank you, my CVO friends.  

I will look into both suggestions.[/size][/color]

[Fatboy]

[size=14]While doing my normal oil change (every 5K) I started by draining the primary (no problem), then the engine (no problem)  and finally the transmission.  IT CAME OUT GRAY!

Now, before I go on, I only use Syn 3 and have 25K on my scooter with no problems.  No noise, no gear changing problem, etc. But the check stick had gray foam on it and the drained oil was the same color.

Where in the heck could water be getting into the tranny?[/size]

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 I wish you had a photo of the soup you drained to show to all the loyal advocates of "Syn 3 in all 3 hole's"............

[erniezap]

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 I wish you had a photo of the soup you drained to show to all the loyal advocates of "Syn 3 in all 3 hole's"............

I'm now using Amsoil synthetic motor oil in the engine and primary, and either Redline or Amsoil synthetic gear lube in the tranny.  Syn3 sucks!

[DCFIREMANN]

I'm now using Amsoil synthetic motor oil in the engine and primary, and either Redline or Amsoil synthetic gear lube in the tranny.  Syn3 sucks!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

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 I wish you had a photo of the soup you drained to show to all the loyal advocates of "Syn 3 in all 3 hole's"............

I just wish they would listen to someone else besides the STEALER!!!!
My buddy who is a MASTER TECH with Harley won't use it either. He is Redline and Amsoil converted!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Midnight Rider]

Explanation: Water vapour will only condense onto another surface when that surface is cooler than the temperature of the water vapor, or when the water vapor equilibrium in air, i. e. saturation humidity, has been exceeded.

Understand that I am not trying to disagree with anyone or say use/don't use a particular product, only that condensation in your engine/transmisstion is normal, and is dependent upon how much water vapor is in the atmosphere at any particular point in time, and how much of that makes it way into your crankcase, to condense later as a liquid (water), after the engine/tranny has cooled.  Heated back up, the water will vaporize again, and exit your engine/tranny.  So, if it has been extremely rainy/humid, etc in your area of the country lately, you would notice more water content in your fluids, depending on when you drain them.  Was this fluid drained cold?  If so, the water vapor never had time to escape, thus the color.  I would bet that any oil, no matter the weight or thinness/thickness would contain the same amount of water, under the same circumstances, regardless of whether or not you can see it.

That's just my opinion, based on 20 years in the HVAC (large commercial applications) business, which is totally based on evaporation and condensing of various liquids, and heat transfer from one place to another.

I think you just drained the tranny at a time when it contained more water than normal, unless you've got a hole in it somewhere and its raining  

I think it's been kinda damp up in that part of the country this spring, hasn't it?  If you've got 25K on your scoot, and have never noticed this before, I would attribute it to outside conditions and not any fault with the oil. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

Explanation: Water vapour will only condense onto another surface when that surface is cooler than the temperature of the water vapor, or when the water vapor equilibrium in air, i. e. saturation humidity, has been exceeded.

Understand that I am not trying to disagree with anyone or say use/don't use a particular product, only that condensation in your engine/transmisstion is normal, and is dependent upon how much water vapor is in the atmosphere at any particular point in time, and how much of that makes it way into your crankcase, to condense later as a liquid (water), after the engine/tranny has cooled.  Heated back up, the water will vaporize again, and exit your engine/tranny.  So, if it has been extremely rainy/humid, etc in your area of the country lately, you would notice more water content in your fluids, depending on when you drain them.  Was this fluid drained cold?  If so, the water vapor never had time to escape, thus the color.  I would bet that any oil, no matter the weight or thinness/thickness would contain the same amount of water, under the same circumstances, regardless of whether or not you can see it.

That's just my opinion, based on 20 years in the HVAC (large commercial applications) business, which is totally based on evaporation and condensing of various liquids, and heat transfer from one place to another.

I think you just drained the tranny at a time when it contained more water than normal, unless you've got a hole in it somewhere and its raining  

I think it's been kinda damp up in that part of the country this spring, hasn't it?  If you've got 25K on your scoot, and have never noticed this before, I would attribute it to outside conditions and not any fault with the oil. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

TN good post but I have to disagree somewhat. If you run an oil that breaks down quicker and the metal heats up faster when your cooling occurs it will condense more. As we both know the amount of moisture in the air will also tell you how much condensation will collect in this case the tranmission case.

I have used and do not care for Syn3. I don't think it protects as well as most of your other V twin syn oils. Just my 2 cents.


OH and BTW besides being a District of Columbia Firefighter I own a small HVAC company. I started in the trade about 35 years ago almost to the date.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Buffy]

[size=14]OK, I really didn't want this to turn into a "He said this, but he said that" but I will listen to all comments. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

One thing that I'd like to mention, I don't work for Harley or are involved with them in any way, (except I like their scooters!) but I have used Syn3 since it came out (Wideglide had about 5K on it then) and although I change my oils every 5K miles, this was the first time that this has happened.

I hear all of the Redline and Amsoil testimonies and they all make sense, except I have two cases of Sys3 sitting in my basement!!!!! [[/size]  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[Midnight Rider]

DC...I think we agree that the HD Syn3 is not a high quality synthetic oil, as has been discussed on other threads, and it would be a good idea to use something else of higher quality.  And we're on the same page with the condensing of water vapor and the principles involved...you know as well as I do that the refrigeration/Air Conditioning process, and the oils/refrigerants used, are magnets for moisture and the havoc it can play in the system.  We could talk about the physics of all this 'till the cows come home.  

So I'm thinkin' that we would both recommend a change to another product, we just might agree to disagree on exactly which one, but either of our choices would probably do a better job.  That's why they make Chocolate and Vanilla   [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

My dealer is probably not going to like it when I take a case of Mobil VTWIN to them at the 1K service and insist they use it to change my fluids.  [smiley=nervous.gif]  If it weren't for the other checks they have to do at 1K, I'd be doin' it myself.  

So Buffy, I think there is a consensus of opinion about the syn3...it sucks    At least compared to Amsoil, Mobil,and a couple of other good ones out there.  So any of those recommended would be better in the long run...personally, I'll run the Mobil in all three holes, and would be equally happy with Amsoil.

[SEULTRA]

[size=12]

I hear all of the Redline and Amsoil testimonies and they all make sense, except I have two cases of Sys3 sitting in my basement!!!!! [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Ask around to find someone who likes the product and sell it to them at a reduced cost ... that way they get their oil cheaper, you'll recoup some of the money you spent on it and you can buy the oil of your choice.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

DC...I think we agree that the HD Syn3 is not a high quality synthetic oil, as has been discussed on other threads, and it would be a good idea to use something else of higher quality.  And we're on the same page with the condensing of water vapor and the principles involved...you know as well as I do that the refrigeration/Air Conditioning process, and the oils/refrigerants used, are magnets for moisture and the havoc it can play in the system.  We could talk about the physics of all this 'till the cows come home.  

So I'm thinkin' that we would both recommend a change to another product, we just might agree to disagree on exactly which one, but either of our choices would probably do a better job.  That's why they make Chocolate and Vanilla   [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

My dealer is probably not going to like it when I take a case of Mobil VTWIN to them at the 1K service and insist they use it to change my fluids.  [smiley=nervous.gif]  If it weren't for the other checks they have to do at 1K, I'd be doin' it myself.  

So Buffy, I think there is a consensus of opinion about the syn3...it sucks    At least compared to Amsoil, Mobil,and a couple of other good ones out there.  So any of those recommended would be better in the long run...personally, I'll run the Mobil in all three holes, and would be equally happy with Amsoil.

Terry I would have to agree anything but syn 3!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Nasty Habit]

I have tried to get my mechanic at EMF here in Morgan Hill to join, but seems he's hesitant. Has a problem with all the opinions here. Isn't that what all this is about? Am I missing something here? I thought the greatness on this website was that we CAN agree to dis-agree. Oh well. I gave him another card, and told him to just join, and don't give his opinion. I think he'd be an asset to this site, and additionally he owns a '05 CVO. Any ideas as to how to intice this man to join? He's a walth of knowledge. Mark, if you are reading this...J-O-I-N N-O-W !
You will join... you are getting sleepy... wake up! and JOIN!
NH [smiley=drink.gif]