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[North Star]

I always said I should stay off the Twin Cam board  

Just read the thread about replacing lifters as a preventative maintenance measure. Everytime I come on this board, I get scared from all the issues some are having with their 110's.

I keep reminding myself of what many say- issues with the 110 are amplified on the internet and in particular on the motorcycle forums. Some say there are thousands of CVO owners that have had no issues with their high mileage 110's... maybe??? 

I'm at 21,000 trouble free miles with my 2009 SERG. Bought it used from a good owner in April 2010 with 5995 miles, and to me, it's reasonably quiet and runs cool enough for my liking. Only possible tell-tale signs of anything potentially bad in the future might be the odd ticking when cold (sometimes), and towards the end of the season, I noticed a bit of oil consumption for the first time (but no leaks).

Like someone else mentioned, the last thing I want is down time during the already short riding season, and I especially don't ever want a break down while on a trip. Like everyone here, I really LOVE riding, and want a reliable ride that doesn't have to be in the shop unless I choose for it to be. So, I don't think "don't fix it 'till it's broke" is a good creedo to live by for me, when it comes to my engine.

My indy mechanic turned me on to an old racer mechanic that is a well known tuner around here. He is also known for a 110 performance package that he does- he'll do headwork, throttle body work, re-grinds the stock cams, and in the case of those who have stock exhaust, he guts the cats and puts in different baffles. Basically, he uses what HD has delivered, but re-works everything, and turns it into what it should have been from the factory.

He gets around 105 hp/130 tq from his builds- I've seen the dyno sheets. Says the bike ends up being very ridable, cool running and reliable as well. He's done about a dozen 110's around here.

Total cost for me would be just under $3,000, including taxes and custom dyno tune. Of course, I have to dump my TTS and buy the SEPST, as that's his module of choice. Not sure if he puts in new lifters , but I'd make sure that I end up with new lifters, inner cam bearing, and valve guides.

I was holding off on getting this work done until the bike hit like 40-50 thousand miles, but with all this info I'm reading, it seems to suggest that I'm at the prime mileage to get it done now rather than later.

The other option is to just do lifters, cam w/Torrington bearings, .030 gasket, and valve guides. Thing is, there is definitely no consensus of which cam is the best for the 110 for what I want (like most of us- low end torque), because one thread says the TW555, 777, 7H, etc is great, than another says no, you need headwork with them, best to stick with the SE255 because it can't be beat for low end tq, than another thread says the SE255 is only good for emission compliance, and is garbage,etc, etc .......

Plus, the tuner guy is against aftermarket cams for the 110, as he says several things have to be done as a package to make it all work, and just doing cams alone aren't going to accomplish much.

So, a bit of a rant I know...what was my point again? Oh ya, what do you guys think-  do lifters/valve guides/cam bearings really have a 20-25 k life span on every 110 ever made, or am I being paranoid? Should I wait to do the 110 performance work later, when I want to, or sooner because supposedly my engines days are numbered?

[BUBBLEHEAD]

If he can build your engine that strong and reliable and you can afford it. Then why would you want to wait 

[North Star]

If he can build your engine that strong and reliable and you can afford it. Then why would you want to wait 

Well, I'm not made of money for one, plus I always figured I'd rather not crack into the engine until it gets higher mileage, as in when it's due for a freshening up (like say, 50,000 miles). I could afford to do it if now rather than later if I convinced myself it would be wise to do it now, for preventative maintenance reasons.

Guess that's what my question boils down to- is 20-25 k miles the point where one should refresh the failure prone components of the 110?

[VaEagle]

I am no mechanic but I agree with some of what you say. The more you read the problem sections the more you can convince yourself you have a problem. Think about it this way, how many owners post "I went for a ride today and nothing broke!" So we never get a true picture of the number of healthy 110s out there.
Many times on problem threads we don't know how heavily modified that 110 was and was it modified by a good mechanic. Also we don't know how well maintained that bike was or how hard the owner pushed the bike.
Most mechanics I have talked to state that the closer to stock the longer it lasts if ridden in a "normal" manner but if you are a hard rider you may want some improvements.
Just my .02 but I would leave things alone for now until you save money for the mods you want and hopefully things will work where you need "freshening up" at the same time you have the money to do it.
Also do you have a warranty or extended coverage? Maybe that will cover the costs if things happen? So if the warranty covers a standard rebuild then maybe you could pay the extra for the upgrades you want?

[Cvostu]

All these decisions.  I just bought a new SG. I know I have to do the exhaust.  That's a given.  So I anpm going with fullsac. Next is the cams and bearings. I am told how the Andrews works so well for these 110s. So I am talking myself into having those installed.  Not that I don't like the stock cams.  They seem fine, but I'm sure the Andrews has some advantages.   Then head gaskets, and lifters.  I did those on my 04 but at 40 k miles.   So I'm not going to do that at this time.   I don't really want to crack into that area of the motor.  Then I ask myself,,  is now the time to do that?  Exhaust, cams and a good tune for now is all I'm gonna do.  But I k ow what you mean. 

[SERK3]

I am no mechanic but I agree with some of what you say. The more you read the problem sections the more you can convince yourself you have a problem. Think about it this way, how many owners post "I went for a ride today and nothing broke!" So we never get a true picture of the number of healthy 110s out there.
Many times on problem threads we don't know how heavily modified that 110 was and was it modified by a good mechanic. Also we don't know how well maintained that bike was or how hard the owner pushed the bike.
Most mechanics I have talked to state that the closer to stock the longer it lasts if ridden in a "normal" manner but if you are a hard rider you may want some improvements.
Just my .02 but I would leave things alone for now until you save money for the mods you want and hopefully things will work where you need "freshening up" at the same time you have the money to do it.
Also do you have a warranty or extended coverage? Maybe that will cover the costs if things happen? So if the warranty covers a standard rebuild then maybe you could pay the extra for the upgrades you want?

I agree with you 100% 

[BryantH]

I hear what you're saying North Star -
I have an 09 SERG as well and have not done any engine work to her. I travel with her at least twice a year and ride her regularly 200 - 500 miles per day when I can get on it when the weather is good here in Massachusetts. After I had the standard comp replaced with the SE comp, she runs much better. I say that because some of the stuff you read on this site (and others) is good information about changes you can make to your ride for the better - e.g., SE Comp, Cat Removal, Improved Suspension, Seat Upgrade, Tune and so one (most of these I've done and have made my ride a better ride).

Now as far as engine, I hear that the cams, lifters, guides and such are also improvements but I have chosen not to crack my engine. I also have 20,000 on mine and I don't abuse her but for the most part, she has been reliable ( I did have a shut down while on a trip once but to date, I have not received a good reason why but don't think the engine was the issue). I have a warrantee until 2015, so if she breaks, I should be covered. I'm also not into the horse power wars and feel my 110 is plenty fast for what I do. Last I checked, the highest posted speed limit in the US is 75 MPH and usually only do 10MPH over the speed limit - it's a touring bike. I average 47 MPG and it uses very little to no oil (never notice a loss when changing oil). I may have a good one but should she experience a major engine problem while under warrantee, then I'll make some upgrades, along with the warrantee work. After 2015, if my engine goes - I'm going with another new engine - maybe a 120R that has been balance welded and all the other stuff the folks talk about. But until then, I'm going to enjoy her....

Just my .02 cent.

BryantH

[Ironhorse]

Think about it this way, how many owners post "I went for a ride today and nothing broke!"

Now that's funny right there! So true.

[SBB]

re-grinds the stock cams,

A well know tuner that regrinds stock cams?
How does the cost of that compare to a set of new cams?
Do you get the specs?

          

Also,

I have to dump my TTS and buy the SEPST,

A well know tuner that suggest you dump the TTS and use a SEPST?
Now that really scares me.
I bet Steve Cole laughs when he reads that kind of stuff.

Oh ya, what do you guys think-

You asked, I think your being paranoid about your motor.
This site is a great source of information.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy another 110 bike because this site has taught me where the issues concerning them are.
Stock evo's made no horsepower, early twin cams had issues, 110's have their own set of issues.
I think the real question is whether you are going to be proactive to address those potential issues sooner or wait till they possibly leave you stranded.

My suggestion, call Jim at Metal Dragon and seek his advice.
There are a lot of motor builders on this site but none better or fairer than Jim.
Good luck in what you do.

SBB

[BAGGER 1]

While we are on this subject I wanna put in my 2 cents,  I purchased my 09 SERG 28 Nov, 2011 and previously ridin a dyna low rider for
two years I ride about 3.000 miles a year. Once a year me and my 2 brothers take about a 1.000 mile trip. Last year my back hurt so bad after ridin
75 to 100 miles I was miserable. So I stepped up, way up, I didnt do alot of homework but I did do a little. I got no bad advice on the 110 motor
and the peeps I did talk to suggested get a 09 and up. they all seemed to advise the the bugs in the 110 motor had been worked out, and it was very
reliable, not to metion the 09 frame was so much better.
   So I am gonna run redline oils, keep her tuned, and ride. One thing I am seriously considering is a oil cooler fan, I have watched the u tube videos and I am gonne talk to my Harley tech to see what he thinks.
   Now If anyone could give me pointers on things to watch and listen for I would appreciate it .  Thanks,  Leeco

[roadking71865]

   So I am gonna run redline oils, keep her tuned, and ride. One thing I am seriously considering is a oil cooler fan, I have watched the u tube videos and I am gonne talk to my Harley tech to see what he thinks.

I'd like info/ feedback on the oil cooler also. Jaag, Ultracool or Oil Bud?

[Montanakid]

My suggestion, call Jim at Metal Dragon and seek his advice.
There are a lot of motor builders on this site but none better or fairer than Jim.
Good luck in what you do.

SBB

I too had some of the same questions, except mine was a little different, I had the stealer install hi comp pistons and cams before it left the lot for the first time, and I too was worried after reading a lot of this stuff, so when I was at Metal Dragon getting a sound system installed and presented some of these questions to Jim he told me to just go ride it and have fun. Now IMHO if it's gonna break it's gonna break, you can try all your preventative stuff you want, but in the end it really don't matter if it's bone stock or built to the top, once again if it's gonna break it's gonna break.








[/quote]

[North Star]

I am no mechanic but I agree with some of what you say. The more you read the problem sections the more you can convince yourself you have a problem. Think about it this way, how many owners post "I went for a ride today and nothing broke!" So we never get a true picture of the number of healthy 110s out there.
Many times on problem threads we don't know how heavily modified that 110 was and was it modified by a good mechanic. Also we don't know how well maintained that bike was or how hard the owner pushed the bike.
Most mechanics I have talked to state that the closer to stock the longer it lasts if ridden in a "normal" manner but if you are a hard rider you may want some improvements.
Just my .02 but I would leave things alone for now until you save money for the mods you want and hopefully things will work where you need "freshening up" at the same time you have the money to do it.
Also do you have a warranty or extended coverage? Maybe that will cover the costs if things happen? So if the warranty covers a standard rebuild then maybe you could pay the extra for the upgrades you want?

I have no extended warranty and don't plan on purchasing one now.

[North Star]

A well know tuner that regrinds stock cams?
How does the cost of that compare to a set of new cams?
Do you get the specs?

          

Not sure how much just that costs, as it is all part of the package of work he does. I'm going to talk to him soon, and get an itemized list of the work he does.

Also,

A well know tuner that suggest you dump the TTS and use a SEPST?
Now that really scares me.
I bet Steve Cole laughs when he reads that kind of stuff.

Why is that scary? He, like most tuners specialize in using one tuner or another-he happens to like the SEPST, but doesn't say anything bad about the TTS- it's just what he prefers. He did tell me the SEPST does one thing that the TTS doesn't, but I don't remember exactly what. He is able to use the TTS, and actually tweaked my TTS map in September, as it was a little lean at start up because I was getting a backfiring on occasion. The backfire problem is gone since he adjusted the map.

You asked, I think your being paranoid about your motor.
This site is a great source of information.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy another 110 bike because this site has taught me where the issues concerning them are.
Stock evo's made no horsepower, early twin cams had issues, 110's have their own set of issues.
I think the real question is whether you are going to be proactive to address those potential issues sooner or wait till they possibly leave you stranded.

My suggestion, call Jim at Metal Dragon and seek his advice.
There are a lot of motor builders on this site but none better or fairer than Jim.
Good luck in what you do.

SBB

[North Star]

On this dyno sheet, he overlayed my dyno run (in red) with a dyno run from one of his 110 worked over bikes (in blue), all on the one sheet.

Note that the top lines are actually HP and the lower lines are torque- not sure why they are backwards from most dyno sheets I've seen.

Funny how the curves are pretty much identical to mine- I guess that's why he said I didn't need a custom map, as my curves looked good.