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[Z10]

I'm considering the Feuling 7076 conversion kit. Item description narrative states: Requires the purchase of ‘factory’ hydraulic chain drive tensioners, chains & front sprockets. I know the primary chain in the 07 and up models is different from the one I have in my 2006. However what about the secondary chain? Is it the same design as the new primary chain? If it's not and since I'm not changing camshafts, I'm having to run my original secondary chain with the new hydraulic tensioner. Or does the new secondary cam chain work with my existing camshafts? If the new hyd tensioner works on the old design secondary chain why wouldn't the hydraulic tensioner work on the old design primary chain? 

I'm also interested to know how many pre 2007 owners went with the 2007 and later cam plate design vice staying with the bearing configuration cam plate when they converted to the hydraulic cam chain tensioner.

[hogasm]

Before you go too far with the Fueling plate, check out you run out on the crank. Fueling plate tolerances is very tight, 2-2.5thousands.
Harley's plate is probably a better choice if you have done nothing to the crank

[Z10]

@hogasm...Not planning on doing anything with the crank.  You reminded me of the other question I wanted to ask.  How many on the forum did go with the the Feuling pump either without checking crank runout or had runout over the .0025 limit?  I've posed this question to a local wrench and a couple friends who work on their own bikes. Their reply...the .0025 is extremely critical if going with a gear drive system, not so with just a plate and pump change. Anyone know why this isn't a requirement for the HD conversion kit?

The higher pressure and scavenge rating on the Feuling pump (higher than the pump in the HD kit) makes it more appealing. 

[HD Street Performance]

The higher pressure and scavenge rating on the Feuling pump (higher than the pump in the HD kit) makes it more appealing.

Not trying to be a smart a$$ but that is exactly what would make it less appealing to me. Moving more oil just for the sake of a perception that it is needed carries overhead. I can't see the pros and I could list (and did list in a recent thread) several cons. Understand I have nothing against the company and they produce a quality product. However in this case so does HD and the OEM 07  up parts or the conversion "hybrid kit" for a 2006 and earlier big twin would be my choice. Cams are abundant in the "conversion" style and I would be leaning toward true roller on both sides of the plate with the OEM parts. Plus the OEM parts are a considerable amount cheaper than the aftermarket.

[grc]

Part of the reason certain oil pumps are more critical when it comes to runout has to do with the internal clearances of the pump.  One way you improve pump efficiency and output is to run tighter clearances.  But that means that any wobble caused by the pinion shaft can cause either accelerated wear of the parts, or in extreme cases actual breakage and failure.  The Harley pumps tend to have a lot more internal "slop" than the so-called high output "racing" pumps on the market, so they can tolerate more runout.  IMHO, you don't need a super duper high output pump in a street engine.  The 2007 and up Harley pump has increased flow compared to your stock pump, and should be more than sufficient.  Just have whoever does your work make sure the bypass valve in the Harley plate seals properly so you will have good idle pressure; Harley doesn't do a great job with this on any of their Twin Cam plates.

As for the cam chain and plate situation, if you wish to convert to a true '07 and up system you will need to look at what is called "conversion" cams.  Those are made with the old inner bearing race size combined with the new style outer bearingless journal and secondary chain sprocket system.  Not all cams are available in a "conversion" variant.  On the other hand, the Harley upgrade plate still uses the old style cams and outer bearings along with the new style tensioner's and the new style primary drive chain.  The secondary chain is still the old style to work with the sprockets of the old style cams, so you don't get the full benefit of the roller chain system.  As far as I know there hasn't been any big problem with secondary tensioner life using the old style secondary chain.

If you want to stay with the cams you currently have, I'd recommend the Harley upgrade kit with the Harley roller bearing plate and higher output oil pump.  If you plan to change cams, then either approach can work as long as you can find the cam you want in a "conversion" style.  I personally went with the stock 2007+ plate and pump along with a Wood conversion cam in my 2005, but if I were to do it over I would probably just use the upgrade kit. 


Jerry

[Z10]

@deweysheads: The main reason why I'm thinking Feuling is because of the the conversation I had with Mr. Feuling in Williams AZ in the summer of 2003 when he was on his way to Milwaukee. He was involved with the development of the TC motor and pulled out after disagreeing with HD engineers on pump scavenge/pressure specs. His comments regarding the design deficiencies with the final product remained with me. After getting into the twin cam arena this summer and seeing much lower oil pressure readings (compared to my 1995 FLHT) and oil temps way higher, a pump change was going to come soon. I'll look for your recent thread on the subject. Thanks to your comments along with grc's I'm going to take another look at the HD kit. $$ saved going with the HD kit will go towards S&S lifters.

@grc:  I'm doing the work myself. Are you referring to the valve that has the spring behind it and is held in place by the roll pin? I'm planning on the having the local HD shop press new bearings in the cam plate. I'm hoping they'll have the ability to verify the valve seats fully.

[Lever]

if your crank run out is greater then  fueling 's  or any other manufacture recommends and you go head and installed those pieces anyway your just asking for big problems 

[HD Street Performance]

z10
We discussed this before and even though Feuling was involved in the development of the motor and is a very highly respected engineer his design was rejected because the motor ran hotter with the added flow.

[glens]

Yeah.  What happens when you take the thermostat plumb out of the cooling system on your car?  It doesn't run cooler with all the increased flow, does it?

[Z10]

Yeah.  What happens when you take the thermostat plumb out of the cooling system on your car?  It doesn't run cooler with all the increased flow, does it?

That's exactly how I can tell when the t-stat on V8 S10 Blazer has stuck open...water temp will not come up to 200 degrees.  It's occured a few times in the 26 years I've owned it. 

[Z10]

z10
We discussed this before and even though Feuling was involved in the development of the motor and is a very highly respected engineer his design was rejected because the motor ran hotter with the added flow.

@Deweysheads: You're right...this was discussed in a November post  http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=67858.15  Very good thread that I added to my favorites lists. Had a brain fart...between the problem I had with the bike over Thanksgiving and my move this summer to Germany got a ton on my mind right now.  Need to get my bagger back together ASAP.

[hogasm]

Part of the reason certain oil pumps are more critical when it comes to runout has to do with the internal clearances of the pump.  One way you improve pump efficiency and output is to run tighter clearances.  But that means that any wobble caused by the pinion shaft can cause either accelerated wear of the parts, or in extreme cases actual breakage and failure. 


Jerry said it all above

If you are not going to do anything to the bottom end then there is a better chance you are throwing money away than not.
I am in the process of building a 103 motor that will have the stock 256 mile plate and pump installed with 570 gear drive cams

[porthole]

Is that the engine that you are leaving stock


iPhone using Tapatalk

[Black Diamond]

If you are not going to do anything to the bottom end then there is a better chance you are throwing money away than not.
I am in the process of building a 103 motor that will have the stock 256 mile plate and pump installed with 570 gear drive cams

Is that the engine that you are leaving stock


iPhone using Tapatalk

That is stock isn't it? 

[hogasm]

That is stock isn't it? 

Damn close enough to be called stock.......at least when compared to Otis's stock motor