Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tonys]

I don't think our value will go down...I think it will go up...here's the deal..you can't put gear drive cams in the 07's...like they 06 dyna engine...some California dealers are getting BIG fines for doing performance work...anything that is not street legal. Pipes have to have catalyst etc. Yes you can put big bore kit in. The dealers in the area have stopped doing slip ons, downloads etc. as of yesterday. I think it makes our bikes worth more..

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

Tony according to what a HD Tech told me this morning is that they can not remove any exhaust from the 07's due to the EPA junk ..also that HDMC has not sent them any MAP downloads and he does not expect them to ... so it would appear when you purchase an 07 ...you get what you see performance wise and sound wise unless you want to bite the bullet and go into the engine .... he also told me the new 96's are not that impressive performance wise and a 95 kit in a 88 with blow it away ..also the only time you will realize the value of the 6 speed is at speeds over 80 ....he went on to tell me that now that they are building so many bikes that he has seen the quality drop off a good bit in the last two years ...


Bama

[Puzzled]

you can't put gear drive cams in the 07's....

As of yet. I'll say by Christmas there will be cams available. Just my opinion. The dealers may not touch the bikes but I believe the better Indy shops will do well.

[Puzzled]

Tony according to what a HD Tech told me this morning is that they can not remove any exhaust from the 07's due to the EPA junk ..also that HDMC has not sent them any MAP downloads and he does not expect them to ... so it would appear when you purchase an 07 ...you get what you see performance wise and sound wise unless you want to bite the bullet and go into the engine .... he also told me the new 96's are not that impressive performance wise and a 95 kit in a 88 with blow it away ..also the only time you will realize the value of the 6 speed is at speeds over 80 ....he went on to tell me that now that they are building so many bikes that he has seen the quality drop off a good bit in the last two years ...


Bama

That is one techs opinion. My opinion is HD will not let those who are willing to upgrade slip away. We'll see something going on here soon. If the dealers won't or are unwilling to touch them the Indy's will. What about the dealers who do a lot of aftermarket work using non SE stuff? I don't forsee them turning down work.

In reference to the new motor, it is a long(er) stroke small bore motor. I feel that once the bore is opened up that will change the motor. You guys know how your 103's feel. The 96" is only a few hours away from a 103".

6 speeds work better with more power and as you stated higher speeds. I'd like to know how the new 07's compare to the Dyna's and SE versions. Are they the same or different?

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

That is one techs opinion. My opinion is HD will not let those who are willing to upgrade slip away. We'll see something going on here soon. If the dealers won't or are unwilling to touch them the Indy's will. What about the dealers who do a lot of aftermarket work using non SE stuff? I don't forsee them turning down work.

In reference to the new motor, it is a long(er) stroke small bore motor. I feel that once the bore is opened up that will change the motor. You guys know how your 103's feel. The 96" is only a few hours away from a 103".

6 speeds work better with more power and as you stated higher speeds. I'd like to know how the new 07's compare to the Dyna's and SE versions. Are they the same or different?

Puz all I am stating is what I have been told ... as I understand it its NOT that HD would not want to do the upgrades its that if they do it voids the warranty and they are also subject to big fines by EPA ... just passing it on what Ive heard for better or worse... you may be right it might just all be a matter of time ..but if the Indy's do it ..it might void the warranty as well ...

Bama

[Puzzled]

My post wasn't intended to sound harsh, as it may have.

The word warranty scares a lot of people. The Magnusson Moss act protects us the end user from such idle threats/claims. I'd have no problem cutting up an 07 the moment it arrived in my garage.

Now the EPA on the other hand "sounds" a little more intimidating. However I feel that is a joke also. Who is enforcing the so called rules/laws? Surely not the local guys. I do understand that a dealer would not want to put themselves in a bad position with anyone, EPA, HD etc. (other than the end user, us)

I have yet to see anything in writing on my states or the EPA's letter head telling me I can and can't do this or that with my bike. I may sound like I'm on my soap box buy actually I'm not. I hear the EPA/HD threads and conversations so often that I'm trying to get people to stand up and look at this stuff a little differently. When the original EPA stuff was spread on the internet about the one custom built bike in a lifetime I nearly fell over laughing. Again who is enforcing it? My local DMV could care less. Bring them my money is about their only care.

Build what you want and if your dealer won't do it find a Indy who will. Do you think Zippers is sweating it? They'll have performance kits out in no time and if your dealer won't install it they will.

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

My post wasn't intended to sound harsh, as it may have.


Build what you want and if your dealer won't do it find a Indy who will. Do you think Zippers is sweating it? They'll have performance kits out in no time and if your dealer won't install it they will.

Puz again my friend you may be right ...but assuming your friendly local Stealer agrred to swap out your exhaust on your new 07 ...or even an Indy did it for you ...if HDMC does not provide a MAP downlaod to tune with ...what do you have?

Bama

[arcticdude]

The 110 has it's torque peak at 3000 rpm, not the 4000 rpm of the 103.  That's a significant difference and why the 6 spd in the 110 will work MUCH better than a 6 in the 103.  The 103 needs to spin, where the 110 doesn't.  Certainly the moco won't allow the aftermarket industry to take anything away from them.  But, they're certainly smart enough to allow the aftermarket to do the R&D, see what sells, then make their own version of it.  This year's new parts catalog has pocketed lowers box covers, like the aftermarket has had for a couple of years now.  You want a small cover that you can pack small and take it with you?- well now you don't have to go aftermarket anymore, there it is in black and orange with a script HD on it.  Packs up about the size of a rain suit.  The new parts catalog is almost 1/3 as thick as the true full P&A catalog.  Which is kind of like t&a, costs about the same, but just doesn't b!tch as much!! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

[Puzzled]

Puz again my friend you may be right ...but assuming your friendly local Stealer agrred to swap out your exhaust on your new 07 ...or even an Indy did it for you ...if HDMC does not provide a MAP downlaod to tune with ...what do you have?

Bama

Very good point. I as most do not know enough about the new bikes yet to determine what it is using for a computer.

[Twolanerider]

it its NOT that HD would not want to do the upgrades its that if they do it voids the warranty and they are also subject to big fines by EPA ...
Bama

Those are two entirely separate issues.  The warranty is Harley's to void or maintain.  EPA restrictions are something else.  The latter is driving the concern leading to what the tech might have thought when speaking to you (whether he knew it or not).

[Fired00d]

Those are two entirely separate issues.  The warranty is Harley's to void or maintain.  EPA restrictions are something else.  The latter is driving the concern leading to what the tech might have thought when speaking to you (whether he knew it or not).

The fine from EPA for exhaust modification...

$25K if dealer modifies them on '07 bikes.
$5K if owner modifies them on '07 bikes.

Who's going to enforce, who knows? What end user/owner will be concerned about it, who knows? Bottom line the law is there and someday, someone may get a wild hair up there you know what and want to enforce it. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[grc]

Puz again my friend you may be right ...but assuming your friendly local Stealer agrred to swap out your exhaust on your new 07 ...or even an Indy did it for you ...if HDMC does not provide a MAP downlaod to tune with ...what do you have?

Bama

Just conjecture here, but I expect you will still have the Power Commander as an option.  The '06 Dyna has the closed loop system, and DynoJet makes a PC for it (I believe they have to bypass the O² sensors).  There is also the entire ECM replacement from various aftermarket sources as well.  Unless / until the EPA also shuts down the aftermarket folks, there will always be a way to get where you want to go.  Just ask the car guys who are still doing performance mods.

Jerry

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

Jerry I was talking about the new 07s ..not the 06's

Bama

[UltraPolecat]

I am obviously ignorant of the law here but why are the '07s different from any prior year as far as doing performance, and emissions modifications? [smiley=nervous.gif]

[Fired00d]

I am obviously ignorant of the law here but why are the '07s different from any prior year as far as doing performance, and emissions modifications? [smiley=nervous.gif]

It's not the bikes that are the significant difference it's the new laws that the EPA has come out with. If I remember correctly they are making emission control more inline w/what California has now, and I believe before it's all over with they will be stricter then California is now.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]