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[Tbone]

When I bought my SEEG, the dealer told me to run 'white gas' whenever possible.  I try to always use BP or Amoco whenever possible.  I don't know what's available in other parts of the country.

[RJ749]

OK, Poprthole hope this isn't off topic but your carbon build up got us going.

Here is a great site on gasoline and how manufacturers are trying to help standardize it as well as a list of brands that meet the standard currently found under the "retailer" tab:

http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html

[grc]

When I bought my SEEG, the dealer told me to run 'white gas' whenever possible.  I try to always use BP or Amoco whenever possible.  I don't know what's available in other parts of the country.

Just an observation - no science to back this up:  About 3? weeks ago, in another thread about driveability problems, someone mentioned that their dealer recommended Exxon rather than BP/Amoco due to the amount of ethanol BP uses causing driveability issues on some bikes.  Since I've been a steady BP/Amoco user for years, and I have driveability issues, I thought I'd test that theory.  So I've been alternating fillups between Exxon and BP, noting any differences in cold start, idle, etc. as well as calculating mileage.  After 3 tanks of each, I do find a slight improvement in the driveability issues with Exxon, and getting between 1 and 2 mpg better mileage as well.  BP has been using more alcohol than anyone else I can think of for several years now (their pumps indicate that they use up to 10% alcohol), and I assume that they are using more now due to the elimination of MTBE.

Jerry

[PHAZE]

I interested in seeing how things go for you Porthole.  As I mentioned before, I'm doing the D & D pipe, K & N filter, the SERT.  The warranty dance thing isn't just from one dealer to the next, it happens when talking with different personnel at the same dealership.  

I've come to the conclusion that the bike just isn't what it should and could be and I'm going to take the warranty risk.  I'm not just risking my standard warranty, but the extended warranty thru 2011.

Now the dealer has indicated that I had some fractured (?) wires to one of my fuel injectors and this might have contributed to my bike doing some sputtering at lower speeds.  I can go along with the love/hate relationship thing.

[RJ749]

Just an observation - no science to back this up:  About 3? weeks ago, in another thread about driveability problems, someone mentioned that their dealer recommended Exxon rather than BP/Amoco due to the amount of ethanol BP uses causing driveability issues on some bikes.  Since I've been a steady BP/Amoco user for years, and I have driveability issues, I thought I'd test that theory.  So I've been alternating fillups between Exxon and BP, noting any differences in cold start, idle, etc. as well as calculating mileage.  After 3 tanks of each, I do find a slight improvement in the driveability issues with Exxon, and getting between 1 and 2 mpg better mileage as well.  BP has been using more alcohol than anyone else I can think of for several years now (their pumps indicate that they use up to 10% alcohol), and I assume that they are using more now due to the elimination of MTBE.
Jerry

We see these "real life" examples in our dealership from time to time, back around 1999 when BP started mixing the max 10% to fuel, we were loosing Jeep fuel pumps by the gross.  When a guy came in who had been servicing at the dealer to our south with a failed pump.  He said it was his third one in as many months.  We had attributed it by then to the ethanol and it's corrosive effect on the pump seal/diaphragm and asked what fuel he used, BP he said.

We explained what our theory was and he asked to borrow the phone.  Next thing I know he's having a "serious" talk with some guy about HOT fuel.  Sure enough, he spoke to the boys in the mix room at the BP refinery where he works just 8 miles form us.  Confirmed they had been using the 10% which coincided with our failures.

Of course manufacturers had to scramble for a solution of the then new mix and solved it with a different set up that would hold up.  Anyway, I am positive that etahanol and lack of detergents etc. will continue to be a scurge on performance and engine life.

[RJ749]

I interested in seeing how things go for you Porthole.  As I mentioned before, I'm doing the D & D pipe, K & N filter, the SERT.  The warranty dance thing isn't just from one dealer to the next, it happens when talking with different personnel at the same dealership.  

I've come to the conclusion that the bike just isn't what it should and could be and I'm going to take the warranty risk.  I'm not just risking my standard warranty, but the extended warranty thru 2011.

Now the dealer has indicated that I had some fractured (?) wires to one of my fuel injectors and this might have contributed to my bike doing some sputtering at lower speeds.  I can go along with the love/hate relationship thing.

Extended warranty here too.  

All of these warranties are only as good as the dealer.  If the dealer starts a claim out with I have an  X issue on a bike, but the owner has modified it.  You know you're in for trouble.

If the same issue is handled by another dealer interested in his customer, clearly a system failure covered on any stock bike and the "modified'' conversation isn't added, it gets repaired no problem.  Now I know some will say but the second guy might get stuck by the MoCo, not much of chance of that, they don't send out inspectors all that often and if they do the dealer argues the point for the customer and most likely gets it covered.

So like I started, the warranty is only as good as the dealer......buy from a reputable dealer and get reputable service follow up.  Buy from a profit whore and get what she delivers but don't expect much service when you go back unless you bring your wallet $$$.

[NE-Tacoma06Fatboy]

well, I got the scare in me and have cancelled my order for the SERT.  Will do the MOCO flash.  

I need to be careful since I will only be doing my 1st 1k Service with HD and then start doing the rest myself.   That was what I did with my 03 and since I do not go into HD, I do not have much of a rapport with them.

Ugh!

[Tbone]

Just an observation - no science to back this up:  About 3? weeks ago, in another thread about driveability problems, someone mentioned that their dealer recommended Exxon rather than BP/Amoco due to the amount of ethanol BP uses causing driveability issues on some bikes.  Since I've been a steady BP/Amoco user for years, and I have driveability issues, I thought I'd test that theory.  So I've been alternating fillups between Exxon and BP, noting any differences in cold start, idle, etc. as well as calculating mileage.  After 3 tanks of each, I do find a slight improvement in the driveability issues with Exxon, and getting between 1 and 2 mpg better mileage as well.  BP has been using more alcohol than anyone else I can think of for several years now (their pumps indicate that they use up to 10% alcohol), and I assume that they are using more now due to the elimination of MTBE.

Jerry

I'm really confused Jerry  [smiley=nixweiss.gif] that's nothing new for me though.  The SEEG always seems to run better on BP/Amoco than anything else.  Before going to the SERT and having it dynoed it would 'ping' under load with anything else I ran.  After the SERT it doesn't seem nearly as sensitive to what fuel I use.  I've never been an Exxon fan because I have had cars in the past that pinged anytime I ran Exxon but never did on any other brand.  I would like to run the best stuff for the bike, I just have no idea what that is.  Do you think there are different blends depending on the area of country you're in?  I know there are some differences in high altitude areas.
Bob

[grc]

I'm really confused Jerry  [smiley=nixweiss.gif] that's nothing new for me though.  The SEEG always seems to run better on BP/Amoco than anything else.  Before going to the SERT and having it dynoed it would 'ping' under load with anything else I ran.  After the SERT it doesn't seem nearly as sensitive to what fuel I use.  I've never been an Exxon fan because I have had cars in the past that pinged anytime I ran Exxon but never did on any other brand.  I would like to run the best stuff for the bike, I just have no idea what that is.  Do you think there are different blends depending on the area of country you're in?  I know there are some differences in high altitude areas.
Bob

Bob,

There will definitely be differences depending on what part of the country you're in.  In areas with air quality issues, like where I am, the fuel companies are required to supply "oxygenated" fuels to reduce emissions, mostly in the summer months.  This stuff runs worse and gives less mileage than traditional blends.  I remember reading somewhere that there are over 20 different blends that refineries have to supply depending on where the fuel is to be sold.

I agree with your assessment of the octane rating with BP - the main reason I started using it was to eliminate pinging on my Harley.  They also do the best job of the various companies in maintaining the proper levels of detergent additives to help prevent injector clogging (as determined by my employer, an auto manufacturer).  Unfortunately for me, my SEEG is extremely finicky and just doesn't seem to like the current blend BP is selling in this area.

Jerry

[Fired00d]

On the topic of carbon build up while at the dealer yesterday to have service done I found out about something that will eliminate some/all of this problem.

Has anyone heard of BG Fuel System Cleaner? This is a three-part procedure that involves the following.

1. They take the breather, and air filter off and spray a solvent in there to break up carbon.

2. They hook a canister up to your bike directly to the fuel line that feeds the injectors (from what I saw it appears they disconnect the fuel feed line from tank and connect this canister/machine there) This machine pressurize the canister to 60psi just like the fuel pump does. The bike is then started and run until the canister empties (since the bike is able to run I'm assuming there has to be some type of fuel mixture in this canister along with a solvent to keep bike running). This is supposed to clean the injectors, valves and top of pistons.

3. They then pour a solvent in your fuel tank that mixes w/gas (I would guess this is similar to injector cleaners that you can buy for your auto) and continues the process of cleaning.

I was told this process would be good for about 10,000 miles, and the cost was $75.00. Service Manager also stated that this product could (by process of cleaning up fuel delivery system) increase my miles per gallon.

I've enclosed a picture of the brochure below. Has anyone heard about this?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Fired00d]

Page 2

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Tbone]

Sounds similar to the service some auto shops offer Gary.  If it truly prevents problems it would be well worth the money.  Happy belated birthday btw.
Bob

[Fired00d]

After seeing what Porthole's valves and pistons looked like, and hearing the stories on the fuel (lack of additives, and alcohol added) this may be a very small price to pay for this treatment. For it to last 10k makes it even more attractive.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[RJ749]

I agree with your assessment of the octane rating with BP - the main reason I started using it was to eliminate pinging on my Harley.  They also do the best job of the various companies in maintaining the proper levels of detergent additives to help prevent injector clogging (as determined by my employer, an auto manufacturer).  [highlight]Unfortunately for me, my SEEG is extremely finicky and just doesn't seem to like the current blend BP is selling in this area.[/highlight]Jerry

Jerry, I don't think it is just your area, they don't make the Top Tier List for detergents and blend.

As I said in my earlier post, it isn't your father's BP anymore.

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

[porthole]

Ok, today’s first post will have to do with the replies in the past 2 days; my next post below will discuss my engine warranty claim.

A race tuner will void your warranty and even states in their catalog, "This race-use only software package..."

Actually, this is not true. Although they catalog says it is intended for “race only applications” they are referring to EPA regulations.

The text below is copied from page 6 of the SERT manual:

“Introduction
This product is designed for Race Use Only
Disclaimer & Warnings

Do not install the EFI Tuner on any model other than those specified in this User’s Manual. Doing so may result in poor engine performance, electrical-system damage, and/or engine damage.

This Screamin' Eagle EFI Tuner system is intended for high-performance applications only.
This engine-related performance part is not legal for use on pollution-controlled motor
Vehicles.
Use of this Screamin' Eagle EFI Tuner system may reduce or void the Limited
Warranty Coverage. This Screamin' Eagle EFI Tuner system allows the engine to reach optimum RPM. It is extremely important that the rider use the tachometer to avoid harmful RPM's and possible engine damage. Engine-related Performance Parts are intended for the experienced rider only.

Do not exceed 6200 RPM on all Twin Cam 88 engines that use stock valve springs.
Exceeding 6200 RPM on these vehicles may cause engine damage.

Do not exceed 6200 RPM on balanced Twin Cam B 88 engines, regardless of additional engine modifications. Exceeding 6200 RPM on these vehicles may cause engine damage.”

The key word here is “may” . Had the word been “shall”, there would be no question as to the voiding of warranty. Unfortunately this leaves the real determination up to the legal system and not some dipchit tech advisor who determined I over-revved the engine without ever looking at it or some moronic service rep who doesn’t even have the decency to talk to me directly..

The heat coking could be from the valve not completely closing if the guide cracked before it stuck enough to bend the valve. From the looks of that crack, it looks more like it occurred when the valve hit the piston.

I guess without the head been looked at by engineers we will not know. It could have been by the valve getting hit, but when you look at the head in person it appears to have had gas leakage through the cracks, which would mean it cracked before the bend.

So now the question is what caused the vale to stick/float in the first place.  Looking at the intake port, it doesn't look like the valve was seating.  Look at the carbon spikes that you see in the first picture of the head.  They shouldn't be there.  What's the front head ports look like?  

I was so PO’d when I saw the cracked guide I forgot to look at the front chamber!

…. then do you feel comfortable letting them do the repair work?  

After the tech missed the cracked guide, not really. But If I do it myself I have to order some books, probably a few tools, try and figure out where everything goes that they took apart and then have the time to do it. If it was November there would be no question.

Rjob,
Good point.  And since he used mostly WaWa gas which has 10% ethanol, we may see a link here.  Guess I've made my last stop at WaWa (except for the coffee).  Need to find someone who is still selling fuel without the ethanol which is going to become much more difficult with the MTBE not being added now.

In New Jersey all of the gasoline is crap, we are right behind California when it comes to the fuel problems. Doesn’t matter where you get it. I was going out of my way to get Sunoco’s highest grade whenever I cold, but most of the stations were bought out by Russian owned Lukoil, so who knows what is out there now.

Just an observation - dealer recommended Exxon rather ……
Jerry

Soapbox opinion here. 2 reasons why I stay away from Exxon. First, back in the late 70’s early 80’s when we had our first and second US sponsored oil shortages I worked for a very large Chrysler Corp dealer. Our drivability problems were horrendous, and it was mostly caused by all the fuel changes that were literally making the fuel systems fall apart.
Between the Dodge Aspen, Plymouth Volare and the fuel issues Chrysler Corp almost went under.

Any vehicle that had significant problems could almost always be linked back to Exxon fuel users. All one had to do was look inside the throttle body and see all the red dye stains and you knew we had to take the fuel system apart and maybe the head & valves.

The second reason I won’t use Exxon is their response to or rather lack of to the Exxon Valdez oil spill. Most people know there was a spill but have no idea as to how large, having nothing to compare it to. Years ago I went an oil spill cleanup seminar and there was an overly presented to us. This was graphic of the Valdez oil spill overlaid on top of a graphic of the east coast. This oil spill covered an area from Massachusetts to “North Carolina”