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[dep47]

I have and 010 SE5 with True Duals, V&H Air  Filter and the PC with a Dyno Tune.  My problem is the bike will have starting problem some times after I stop for a  and then try to restart when the bike is hot,  Most of the time this occurs after a quick gas stop.  Only happens when the bike is hot, and not all the time.  Always starts when cold, runs great.  The bike will turn over, and try to start.  but will not and if I keep grinding on it it will not start, it may even back fire the next time I try it.  It has always started after one of these episodes after I stop and try to restart the engine, and runs fine.  Has a new battery and again runs fine.  Anyone else have similar issues, and is there a cure for this?

[Twolanerider]

I have and 010 SE5 with True Duals, V&H Air  Filter and the PC with a Dyno Tune.  My problem is the bike will have starting problem some times after I stop for a  and then try to restart when the bike is hot,  Most of the time this occurs after a quick gas stop.  Only happens when the bike is hot, and not all the time.  Always starts when cold, runs great.  The bike will turn over, and try to start.  but will not and if I keep grinding on it it will not start, it may even back fire the next time I try it.  It has always started after one of these episodes after I stop and try to restart the engine, and runs fine.  Has a new battery and again runs fine.  Anyone else have similar issues, and is there a cure for this?

First thing I'd check is the ACRs.  Might have been inadvertently turned off during the tuning process.

[dep47]

Ok I will have them check, but wouldn't this be a consistent problem?

[Midnight Rider]

Ok I will have them check, but wouldn't this be a consistent problem?

Did it ever do this before you had the tune with the PC?  What kind of PC?

Like Twolane said, I'd check the ACR's first.

[Twolanerider]

Ok I will have them check, but wouldn't this be a consistent problem?

The lack of ACRs would be consistent.  But the environmentals aren't.  More or less "hot" from one start to the next.  Even with a hot engine setting a bit longer between starts from one instance to the next.

Have no idea if that is your problem.  But it might be.

[grc]

Ok I will have them check, but wouldn't this be a consistent problem?

Not necessarily.  If the compression releases weren't working, you might get by just fine with a cold engine because the cranking compression is a bit lower when cold, but it's higher when the engine is hot.  Is the engine turning over just as fast as it does when it's cold, or does it seem to be struggling a bit to turn over?

What kind of PC are you using, PCIII USB, PCV, Power Vision, ?  I seem to remember a problem with the PCIII for the '07 - '08 models where the harness that connects to the ECM left out the circuit for the ACR's.  Other than that, the PCIII or PCV shouldn't affect ACR operation to the best of my knowledge.  Anyhow, it is pretty easy to verify they are working with a simple compression test.  If they are working, make sure you have no voltage drops (high resistance) in the starter circuit, positive and ground sides.  If that checks good, ask your tuner (or check yourself if you have the software) if any changes were made to the starting fuel setting.  The PC has a separate option for changing starting fuel values, and if it has been changed try setting it back to stock.


Jerry

[dep47]

The bike has the PCV installed.  The environmental s can be different I agree, which is why it is not a constant problem.  Again it happens only when the bike is hot after a long ride, and when it is restarted with only minimal off time, like a quick fill up.  If the bike sets for a few minutes it always starts right up, even though it is still hot.  Hard to time the set time, because I am not expecting to have the problem.   The bike does struggle when it will not start and like I mentioned it has even backfired upon occasion, when I stop the starter and restart right away.

[Twolanerider]

The bike has the PCV installed.  The environmental s can be different I agree, which is why it is not a constant problem.  Again it happens only when the bike is hot after a long ride, and when it is restarted with only minimal off time, like a quick fill up.  If the bike sets for a few minutes it always starts right up, even though it is still hot.  Hard to time the set time, because I am not expecting to have the problem.   The bike does struggle when it will not start and like I mentioned it has even backfired upon occasion, when I stop the starter and restart right away.

Probably seems a bit worse if starting in gear rather than starting in neutral when hot also?

Everything you describe could be an ACR problem.  The engine is harder to turn over when it's fully heat soaked.  The longer it sets the easier it would start. 

The same symptoms could apply to starter issues, battery issues, battery cable issues and a few other things.  But if it all started after the tuning effort, because we never trust coincidence, I'd start looking at anything that might have changed with that effort; changes to ACR operation among them.

[dep47]

The PCV was installed after the first 1000 miles, so I really don;t have much of a history without it.  The bike starts cold like most of the CVO,s I have been around they seem to crank a turn or two longer then those with out, and it spins right up.  My 09 standard Ultra seemed to be running as soon as you hit the start button, this one always takes a few turns, but never struggles, only after a hot run and short stop. Has anyone had similar problems?

[Midnight Rider]

Are you familiar enough with the PCV software to go in and look if it has a enable/disable ACR function?  The TTS Mastertune does, but I have no idea about the PCV.  Again, that would be the first suspect.

So, to your recollection, the bike was not doing this during the first 1K miles, but started it after adding the pipes and getting the PCV and tune?

Also, you mention a "new battery" in your original post, so the battery has already been replaced in a '10 bike?  If so, you're sure the ground connection is good and tight...and clean?  A bad ground can cause all sorts of issues and that would be something very easy to check.

The key diagnostic question here is when the problem started showing itself.  The early versions of the 110 had some issues with the ACR's, but that has been sorted out for a while now, at least to my knowledge.  But that doesn't mean isolated cases can't show themselves.

[Unbalanced]

The PCV was installed after the first 1000 miles, so I really don;t have much of a history without it.  The bike starts cold like most of the CVO,s I have been around they seem to crank a turn or two longer then those with out, and it spins right up.  My 09 standard Ultra seemed to be running as soon as you hit the start button, this one always takes a few turns, but never struggles, only after a hot run and short stop. Has anyone had similar problems?

What happens if you hit the starter button as soon as you turn the bike on and don't wait for the lights to go off do you still have the issue?

[dep47]

Have not tried hitting the start button as soon as I turn it on, always have let the dash light go out first, will this make a difference?

[Para Bellum]

Could be vapor lock due to high temps.

[Sledge]

I had this problem on my '03 103 with the Daytona Twin Tech tuner.  Never got it straightened out.  Heck of an annoying thing too.  Before I wrecked it thanks to MDOT idiot road crew, I was going to try changing starting fuel values.  Acted like it wasn't getting enough fuel on hot starts.  I didn't have ACR's and sometimes it would pre-fire from compression and blow smoke too.  Whenever I started it cold it fired right up every time.  Drove me frickin' nuts.

Good luck and let us know if you get it figured out.

Sledge

[stevegoetsch]

Most of the time that relates to the timing being way to advanced.