Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Twolanerider]

Posting here for a new-ish member who wasn't ready to start his own thread and asked for a hand from the group.  Told him I'd do the deed for him to get the ball rolling.  I'm sure he'll chime in as things get moving.  The question he'd like some help with is:

What might cause the following problem?  Clutch seems to work fine most of the time.  But when bike is cold or rarely at other times the clutch doesn't fully disengage and the bike wants to walk a bit.  Not so much it can't be held by hands and feet.  But just a bit.  It's a bike with a cable operated clutch.

He and I have discussed this in PM but he'd like to share publicly and was hoping for some insights from the group.  So being the helpful old fart that I am; here goes.

[GregKhougaz]

Don,

        I'm sure there are more qualified folks then I to speak on this.  But since you say it happens mostly when cold, wouldn't be the first step to be to check the primary fluid? Could be low, old or just HD.  Seems to me this question has been asked and answered this way here before.   

GK

[Twolanerider]

Don,

        I'm sure there are more qualified folks then I to speak on this.  But since you say it happens mostly when cold, wouldn't be the first step to be to check the primary fluid? Could be low, old or just HD.  Seems to me this question has been asked and answered this way here before.   

GK

I know he's recently switched to ATF Greg.  From Harley Syn.  Can only assume the volume is correct.  It's something we've talked about but I'm sure he'll consider again.

[scttgr8]

...What might cause the following problem?  Clutch seems to work fine most of the time.  But when bike is cold or rarely at other times the clutch doesn't fully disengage and the bike wants to walk a bit.  Not so much it can't be held by hands and feet.  But just a bit.  It's a bike with a cable operated clutch.

how many miles?...is the fluid level correct?...most likely it is a simple cable adjustment  

  :soapbox:ATF would be the problem!!!

[Twolanerider]

how many miles?...is the fluid level correct?...most likely it is a simple cable adjustment  

  :soapbox:ATF would be the problem!!!

He's said about 20k miles and describes a fluid level right at the bottom of the basket. I've walked him through cable adjustments too.  That we've done everything at least once already is why he asked for the discussion to go public.  The gent understands it's likely something he's just missed.  New to wrenching on his.  But is interested in getting more familiar.  That's a worthy effort so I was glad to help move the discussion along for him.

[sadunbar]

Your first troubleshooting test should be to check (with a dial indicator) to see that you have proper clutch release travel.  If not, that finding will point you the right direction.

If you do have proper release travel, check your discs and spacers for flatness.  Slightly out of flat discs and spacers can cause your symptom, but it will happen whether the bike is cold or hot.

If your only symptom is slight clutch drag when starting the bike when cold (but not so much when hot), it's very possible you are running to much (volume) primary lubricant.  If your discs are dragging excessive cold primary lubricant between them and the spacers, you will get clutch drag as Twolane described until the primary lubricant has reached operating temperature.

A good test is to drain your primary lubricant, then pull and clean your spacers and discs.  Reassemble.  Then before buttoning up your primary (hence before adding new lubricant), raise your rear tire off the ground , put your bike in gear, squeeze the clutch lever, and spin your rear tire.  If it spins completely freely, then it's likely you may be slightly overfilling your primary.  With no primary lubricant, it should spin just as free whether your transmission is in gear or not....  Personally, I've experienced this condition when filling the primary with the amount of lubricant specified by the service manual.  I typically add about 5 oz less primary lubricant than the service manual calls for...

[hogasm]

Don I have done everything as mentioned above and still on my 02 it will slightly walk when cold.
One of the clutch plates looks ever so slightly different than the others only on one side. I think it came from running non synthetic oil in the primary then switching to synthetic without cleaning the plates and letting them soak in the synthetic oil. JMHO though.
I even tried a VPC and it exaggerated the creeping while cold. I am just going to live with it till new plates are needed.
I run 4oz less.....maybe I need to loose another oz.

[grc]

When you get really bored and have nothing else to do, get yourself a good surface plate and remove all the clutch friction plates and steels.  Clean them thoroughly, then place them on the surface plate and check flatness with feeler gauges.  Don't be surprised to find many of the plates are not flat.  The max tolerance used to be .006" if I remember correctly, I'm not sure what it might be these days in light of Harley's wholesale loosening of tolerances for other critical parts.  IMHO, .006" is excessive considering how little total travel there is in the release mechanism.

When you do the clutch pushrod adjustment, rather than using the 1 turn out from lightly seated figure in the specs, try using 3/8 to 1/2 turn, and then set the cable freeplay at the lever to the minimum as well.  And as noted by several others, a few ounces less oil is much better than overfull. 

btw, what model and year bike are we talking about?

btw #2, to the gentleman who claimed the ATF was the problem, obviously you've never tried it.  My clutch drags much less than it ever did with SYN3, Formula plus, or any of the other primary fluids normally used in a Harley.  I can put my bike into first gear these days after a cold start without even a clunk, much less any forward creep.  Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF.  ATF is designed specifically to work with wet clutches, since automatic transmissions are full of them.  Some aftermarket clutch manufacturer's actually recommend ATF over the regular gear oils normally used in the primary.


Jerry 

[chaos901]

I think it is in the adjustment.  Hard to get just right sometimes. 

I know that I can do it the same way everytime (so I think) and it might take a few tries to get it just right where I like it.  So much of adjusting the clutch is feel. 

Just my thoughts.
 

[Twolanerider]

Everyone feel free to offer guidance here as they wish of course.  But I've been told by the member who was shy about starting the thread himself that he's "done" with the site now and won't be checking back in to review.  Seems after I'd suggested these same things to him privately, and he then got the same recommendations from the site writ large, that he's come to the conclusion "they're not any smarter than" I am and none of us are able to help the gentleman.  Oh well.... 

[DESERTBEAR54]

Huh???

[110tHunDer]

 
   Too much of a wuss to start his own thread and then pouts on top of it?

[SBB]

   Too much of a wuss to start his own thread and then pouts on top of it?

          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you!

SBB

[chaos901]

Took his ball and went home. 

I have started threads here and other places even when I thought I knew the answer, just to make certain that I covered all of the bases.  Sometimes they were right too.

[Chains]

This may sound crazy to most of you, but I have used a positraction additive in transmissions to free up clutch plates before and it worked.  Don't see why it wouldn't work on a clutch.  As I recall it is a 4 ounce bottle.