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[ozrider]

 I assume they will eventually start selling Harley branded air for the tires and start warning customers that they should only use Harley air because it's the only stuff certified for use in a Harley tire.


Jerry


 

Great idea Jerry, Wow, we could all book our rides in to the Dealer just to get the tire pressures checked !    

In all seriousness now, I agree with Jerry, a conservative tune is by far the best way to go.
We experience a variance of 40 degrees Celsius here between winter and summer and I'm lucky enough to be able to buy 95 and or 98 octane from the pumps, once the machine is up to operating temperature there are no problems winter or summer.

[dayne66]

I remember an old racer trick.....buy toluene at a paint store.......I can't remember any ratio info though. Anyone?

[grc]

As best I can tell John they've been selling that 104+ product for about forty years, and there are no records I can find that allege it damages anything.  It also doesn't increase octane very much, but if it helps eliminate your slight ping then give it a whirl.  It's almost impossible to find out exactly what's in this stuff, since they all claim proprietary ingredients that they aren't required to disclose either on the labels or the MSDS.  If it does have any negative affect I'd suspect it would be limited to things like spark plugs or maybe oxygen sensors.  They claim it's sensor safe and contains no MMT, so if they can be believed you are probably safe.

Enjoy the ride.  I have no idea how you handle 100+ degrees on a bike; when the temps hit the 90's around here I park the bike and take the cage.  I guess I've become a wuss in my old age.


Jerry

[GtreetSlide]

Jerry has the best advice. Tune the bike for the octanes you will most regularly fill up with. My 2009 10.5:1 103 motor did fine in the Arizona desert with temps ranging from 110 in the morning to 130 in the afternoon running pump gas and never ran hot or pinged. Crossing Canada, Yukon, and Alaska I found it impossible to get any gas above 85 octane. I was told by the owners in the remote areas that gasoline had gotten so high in price and declining need for gasoline in the remote areas meant that it may take them a year to sell the whole tank of fuel. So, they couldn't afforsd to fill the tanks with anything but the cheapest gas. The Alaska highway is on it's way to extinction. Mostly it is travelled by big trucks and motorhomes that can go a long way without fuel, and then use only diesel. Very few cars and bikes are making that trip now, and less every year. That is why it is so hard to even find a gas station up there as many go out of business every year now.

So, travelling the great northern wilderness meant really crappy gas that my bike was not tuned for. Spark knock stress eliminated most of my fingernails so I tried all kinds of octane boosters including Harleys. If they had raised my octane by two or three numbers I would have seen some relief. NOPE! Still pinged like hell, and the worst was Harley's. If octane booster actually works for you then I am pretty sure you only need to knock about one or two degrees of timing off your map. I finally hooked up my TTS tuner and laptop in Alaska and pulled about three degrees out everywhere to get relief. Once I was back where good gas was available I reset the tune to my original map, but still saw some ping from crappy gas on the way back to US intermittently.

Harley mechanics have told me that some of the octane boosters will kill your O2 sensors. I'm not sure, but I expect the system would tend to run slightly richer without o2 sensor input; ie; seem to run good and not spark knock... Maybe that is how octane boosters became so popular... Beats me... The safest path is a good tune not on the bleeding edge for a couple of HP you never use...

jb

[clubbie]

I remember an old racer trick.....buy toluene at a paint store.......I can't remember any ratio info though. Anyone?

Or even cheaper to buy at a heating oil bulk depot (if they still exist in your area).

Correct ratio up to 15% for N/A motor and up to 30% for forced induction. Toluene has a US octane rating of 114
So assuming you put 4.5 gal of gas in your tank.  4 Gal 91 and 2 quarts Tol (11%) your octane goes up to 93.55.

Most octane boosters are 85% toluene 13% spirit and 2% trans fluid (the red colour you see on your plugs). They are sold in approx half quart sizes, hence they would raise your octane from 91 to 91.6

The beauty of toluene is it wont fcuk with your o2 sensors or stuff up cats.

Be warned that on carby motors it can (probably will - found out the hard way) gum up or leave wax residue in the bowl and seats in really cold weather. So use it for summer and no problems.

clubbie

[wideglidejoe]

Toluene is used by the refiners as an octane enhancer/improver when blending the higher octanes of fuel.  I've worked in refineries the last 35 yrs, and I've been over gasoline blending since '89.  For the refineries, its not cost efficient to use toluene most of the time, but there are some circumstances when it is necessary, such as when parts of the refinery that make the higher octane blend components are down for maintenance.

I used to hot rod a V8 Vega in the 70's.  I experimented with a lot of different stuff.  With a big cam, headers, good ignition, etc., I could run up to 10% toluene/90% 93 octane.  Add a little advance to the timing and a range or two hotter plug, and it ran the best.  I found anything over 10% toluene in my hot 327 SBC was not worth it to me. 

I haven't used any yet in my '11 110, but I use the Lucas additive in my '05 Wideglide in the summer because it has 10.5:1 c.r.

Previous comments mentioned lead in race fuel.  Sunoco has 10-12 different octane ratings of race fuel, both leaded and unleaded, but most speed shops only carry a couple of octanes.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

I have run 3 tanks of this 104 Octane booster through BLUU with this Hot Weather and crappy gas we have been getting. It is like my 110 motor is on Steroids!! It is running so smoothly and all my pinging in town and even on the freeway in sixth gear has all but disappeared.Very responsive and better gas milage. Has anyone else used this product in the summer time?

Hot Rod Magazine, published an article years ago in regards to different octance boosters(fuel modifiers), and Super 104 was on the top of the heap.
Scott

[Z10]

Get your bikes tuned properly to run on the available fuel, as opposed to the typical tune from those dyno jockeys trying to squeeze out the last tenth of a horsepower to impress you with the WOT dyno chart, and you won't need to waste all that money on overpriced cans of toluene.  A more conservative tune will solve the problem, and you will be highly unlikely to ever feel the tiny performance difference.

The octane booster industry is a highly misleading and highly profitable business.  Most boosters won't raise the actual octane level even one full point, but those misleading names like 101 or 104 or 110 plus or whatever all sell like hotcakes in every convenience store and gas station in this country.  Even the more potent mixtures that aren't street legal, like the Lucas stuff, won't increase the real octane rating more than a couple points when used in the prescribed ratio.  If you figure the price over a full season to constantly run this stuff, you will see that it wouldn't take very long to spend more than a good tune would cost.  

Do yourselves a favor and find a good tuner (not necessarily the kid at your local Harley shop) and tell him you want a conservative tune that will let you run ping free on 89 octane gas. And fill it with 89 octane when you take it in for the tune.  Or you could buy racing gas in 55 gallon drums I suppose.  You'll need to deal with the damage the lead will do to sensors and stuff, and you'll need to figure out how to carry enough with you for any trip of more than a one tank range, but I'm sure there's a way.


Jerry

I had to take my bike back to the Dyno Jet tuner who worked on mine after cam change and head work. When OAT got in 80's engine would ping. He retarded timing. No change to fuel tables. No more pinging and I'm consistently getting 39 MPG (was 35-36 MPG.) Power wise I can't tell a difference.

[twinotter]

I have never used an octane booster in my T124 S&S motor. I use 91 octane fuel from different sources, they all seem to work great. I once put in some 93oct from a UFA gas station, it pinged like a hammer for 2 seconds until the IST pulled the timing out.
S&S engines (mine) have a max timing of 28 degrees, and will pull timing and add it as required. Pretty cool! Ig ot stranded in Montana (For fuel), only 87 was avialable, I filled up, rode the bike at 70-75 mph. It ran smoother, and went farther on that gas than any other I'd used that trip. I did not hammer on it, it had plenty of power for cruising, no issue climbing the hills in nw Montana.
I wasn't in a race, saw no need to try to make it ping deliberately, I actually got 3-4 mpg more from the 87.
The plus side is the T124 is not constricted by super lean fuel injection maps, and is actually tuned fairly mild, with the IST protecting things as I roll along.
I'm headed out to Sturgis again this year, test show mileage at 48 mpg this year and engine temps at 190 on 90 degree days. I expect it to run the same as always.  FWIW twinotter 

[North Star]

I didn't know Harley marketed their own brand of boost.  I'm quite fond of the 104, so I may just carry a couple of bottles through Canada.

Thanks. 

We have no fuel issues- Shell V Power 91 has no ethanol at all. Sunoco has been taken over by Petro Canada, and just about every Petro Canada station is now carrying the old Sunoco 94 octane.

That's how it is in Ontario- I'm sure it's the same in the western provinces.

[DESERTBEAR54]

We can get 91 Octane here in Tucson and Phoenix but it is a crap shoot on the blending of fuels and when you add 107 degree temps BLUU likes to ping a little bit. For some reason that I can't figure out is when I use 4 oz of 104 Octane Booster I can fill up with that special blend of 91 octane and add 4 oz of 104 octane booster and BLUU doesn't miss a beat and runs extremely strong in 100+ temps.

[StrokedRider]

We can get 91 Octane here in Tucson and Phoenix but it is a crap shoot on the blending of fuels and when you add 107 degree temps BLUU likes to ping a little bit. For some reason that I can't figure out is when I use 4 oz of 104 Octane Booster I can fill up with that special blend of 91 octane and add 4 oz of 104 octane booster and BLUU doesn't miss a beat and runs extremely strong in 100+ temps.

Bear all i know is i have the exact same response as you. Worse with the "blends" we get here. I also find issues when i get "tourist fuel" (Small stores i am sure are selling 89 for 91). Granted an additive does not completely resolve the pinging due to the timing changes my stock ECM produces while riding the elevations here. As some know we can go up and down in elevation a 1000 feet rather quickly around here. Ride everywhere and add some is my motto. JMHO

Just a quick note: When i ride the Laughlin/Bullhead CityLake Havasu area i have tried the 100+ octane sold in the area. No perceived performance increase and pinging does not stop. However, it does not change from the occasional snap you hear on a regular basis.

[DESERTBEAR54]

Here in Tucson I only use Shell or Cheveron but what I have found out is all fuel is exactly the same except each distributor has its own box of goodies they mix into the fuel for delivery. That is what makes it Cheveron or Shell. It's that base fuel that is a crap shoot!!

[twinotter]

Isn't the ionization, anti knock spark system on a Harley supposed to prevent knocking and ping by retarding the timing. I thought that what its supposed todo. Obviously not. If functioning, it should be capable of pulling up to 30 degrees of timing to prevent knock. It can also be disabled, are you guys running with it turned off?
My T124 S&S with IST will pull timing based on knock sensor and cyl head temps, when it has happened (only with the UFA sh...t gas) ping stopped immediately and the power dropped.No more than a second or less. FWIW twinotter

[T-Hawk]

We have no fuel issues- Shell V Power 91 has no ethanol at all. Sunoco has been taken over by Petro Canada, and just about every Petro Canada station is now carrying the old Sunoco 94 octane.

That's how it is in Ontario- I'm sure it's the same in the western provinces.

Yeah, I'm kinda remembering not really having any issues finding good fuels, but my range is going to be cut quite a bit... considering my Suburban had a 42gallon tank.  I'm one of those (where space is allowed) who will carry something even if I didn't NEED it, rather than Needing it and NOT having it...

Don't know why those up here have told me otherwise... as if I remember correctly, the Huskey's and Race-Tracks all had at least 90oct.  Once I get into Alberta, it'll be easy breezy...