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[firehog383]

For an exhaust, tune and cams that is a really nice curve and increase

[Midnight Rider]

That dyno graph shows a nice result with that combination of parts...BUT it doesn't show the effect of the cam by itself, because they changed the cam, tuner, and mufflers at the same time.  The baseline run was done with a pizz-poor AFR that was so lean it couldn't be measured.  If the initial AFR had been corrected first, at least we could see how much the cam and mufflers (with updated tune) add.  There's no way, with the current evidence, to tell how much bang for the buck we'd get with just the cam (or with just the ______).

Don't get me wrong, it's a very nice combination, and I don't expect many people would want to pay the price to do this the scientifically correct way...but basic science says to change only one thing at a time, and measure that effect.

I know what you're saying, but...90% of the stock bikes here on the site that have pipes and a tune done show an increas of about 10%, give or take.  That generally (there are exceptions) means numbers around 92-94HP/108-112TQ, so this cam appears to increase things about that much again.  Not bad for a simple bolt in cam.

[firehog383]

I would like to try it. Hopefully they will produce the cam and we will see what kind of power and torque the cam makes consistently with other exhausts.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

That dyno graph shows a nice result with that combination of parts...BUT it doesn't show the effect of the cam by itself, because they changed the cam, tuner, and mufflers at the same time.  The baseline run was done with a pizz-poor AFR that was so lean it couldn't be measured.  If the initial AFR had been corrected first, at least we could see how much the cam and mufflers (with updated tune) add.  There's no way, with the current evidence, to tell how much bang for the buck we'd get with just the cam (or with just the ______).

Don't get me wrong, it's a very nice combination, and I don't expect many people would want to pay the price to do this the scientifically correct way...but basic science says to change only one thing at a time, and measure that effect.

Well anytime some one or yourself would like to go through it step by step and cover the cost please let me know.. I have showed box stock bikes for a base line and guess what guys still bitch.. well if you tune it then it would be better..

SO let me get this straight I should have tuned the stock combo,(oh yea it was not 100% stock so I should get that pipe as well) then install the new mufflers then tune that set up, and then install the cams and retune ...  Sorry thats a bit much..

SO when you are ready to pay for the basic science let me know.. BTW you will then get another guy that will state the base line from that given bike is too low or too high and that the results are incorrect.   SO then lets get 5 new bikes and go from there..  There will never be a 100% complete test that will make EVERYONE happy.  We figured that out a long time ago.

Also I have that cam going into a 103 for testing. I have a 100% stock base line on this bike from a ealry date, at this point I will use it as the HD shop has rebuilt the engine 2 times and added there mufflers,  a SEST, dyno tune, .. it was still running very hot and would ping allmost all the time. We pulled it down from having a massive intake leak, two different head gaskets, and a few other mistakes...

It is at least yesterday running worse than when it was 100% stock.  So at this point I will know what the CC volume of the heads are, what head gasket is used.. It will however not be put back together to get a new base line.

I can understand what you are saying but to prove that the cam is worth "X" the pipe is worth "X" and so on is not a cheap test to run .. 

[clubbie]

Cmon Steve, What about a dyno test and tune for the 60 different pipes and then the 30 different A/C and the 10 different TB/intakes and then 20 different heads/porting and then 5 different tuner/ECU. I mean that is only 1.8 million combinations. Should be less than four hours work. 

Seriously though it was clearly stated stock bike with V&H for before and cam/muffler/tune after results.

Also if you are not wrenching and tuning your own bike most people do cam/pipes/ac/tuner all at once to save money on labour and dyno/tune.

Still fantastic resluts for a drop in cam.

[Para Bellum]

Well anytime some one or yourself would like to go through it step by step and cover the cost please let me know.. I have showed box stock bikes for a base line and guess what guys still bitch.. well if you tune it then it would be better..

SO let me get this straight I should have tuned the stock combo,(oh yea it was not 100% stock so I should get that pipe as well) then install the new mufflers then tune that set up, and then install the cams and retune ...  Sorry thats a bit much..

SO when you are ready to pay for the basic science let me know.. BTW you will then get another guy that will state the base line from that given bike is too low or too high and that the results are incorrect.   SO then lets get 5 new bikes and go from there..  There will never be a 100% complete test that will make EVERYONE happy.  We figured that out a long time ago.

Also I have that cam going into a 103 for testing. I have a 100% stock base line on this bike from a ealry date, at this point I will use it as the HD shop has rebuilt the engine 2 times and added there mufflers,  a SEST, dyno tune, .. it was still running very hot and would ping allmost all the time. We pulled it down from having a massive intake leak, two different head gaskets, and a few other mistakes...

It is at least yesterday running worse than when it was 100% stock.  So at this point I will know what the CC volume of the heads are, what head gasket is used.. It will however not be put back together to get a new base line.

I can understand what you are saying but to prove that the cam is worth "X" the pipe is worth "X" and so on is not a cheap test to run ..  

I addressed all your arguments in my first post--especially the highlighted part, in that using a very poor-running bike (massive intake leak, different head gaskets, and so on) as a baseline is a poor way to measure the effect of an upgrade.  Midnight Rider correctly points out that this cam, with this combination of parts, roughly doubles the effect of just pipes and tune...and as I said in the first line of my first post "That dyno graph shows a nice result with that combination of parts."

I also said "I don't expect many people would want to pay the price to do this the scientifically correct way."  So, let me state my original point in a more direct way:  People may not get these results just by dropping this cam into whatever setup they already have.  My new point is "RTFP more carefully before you get childish and sarcastic and start flame-spraying."

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Not flaming you at all.. I get the point however for the most part in the real world there is no point to it all...  As I also stated I posted a 100% stock base line pull on a 2012 bike.. Guess what many where not happy with that base line, well that was due to the stock tune not being correct.. So please look at it from another side.. We post the base line and its no good... even though that is how HD sold the bike.. thus another case of some not being happy.  And I never said I was going to use the intake leak, etc base line.. Read my post its states I will be using the early base line before the dealer made several attempts at repairing the bike.

If  the person can read's what mods where done to the bike and follow that parts install the results should be in the same range.

No one up to this point has been name calling.. Lets keep it that way... I have no reason to post up anything here. I was asked to post by another forum member.. Be just as happy to post them on my own site and move on.. Most are intrested in looking at the results and fully understand that it is a one bike test and take that result as shown..

Clubbie, thanks for the kind words.. Take care

[Twolanerider]

My new point is "RTFP more carefully before you get childish and sarcastic and start flame-spraying."

That seemed over the top.  GMR has never been other than a good citizen here; at least in the times I've witnessed.  In fact shows far more patience than I have.  FWIW I recognized his chain of effort/change and felt confident I understood what was being represented. 

Tossing out that no control baselines and implemented steps from what were presented leaves the implication they are required.  In some cases they would be.  But not here.  A little homework (including looking back at GMR's efforts) shows many representations of the factory baseline.  We can find them easily if we're willing to look generally rather than take issue specifically.  With that knowledge in hand it's no mean feat to take the baby steps necessary to compare a beginning to GMR's end.

We've (unfortuanately) got/had vendors who have behaved as you suggested above.  Such a reaction to GMR is a priori; it's just never been his thing.  Always been far more member first than salesman/vendor rather than being salesman first, second and last as has been the case with other vendors membered here.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

quick update .. the 103 with the tc24 cam is on the drum  making good power with a basic drop in map. afr is all over the board but the cam is looking good thus far. Hope to have it tuned by end of day. will post up final numbers.

[shelby500]

What kind of numbers did the 103 show?

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

We hit a snag on the customers bike and had a sensor fail and hope to have it here today.. Then I can complete the tune.. Tune is done the bike made very nice power, Mike Roland is also doing one as well.. He asked me to wait to see what it makes to ensure that the numbers are not way off from one another.. that way no one can get too upset over this being the only 103 done.. I will re post soon..

[JoeSDE]

Any outcome on the 103 install? It's winter and I need to think about spending some bucks on something.     JoeS

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

They have not said its ok to release the 103 data..
 

[JoeSDE]

Yikes! Thanks for the reply. Hope to hear soon.      JoeS

[Puzzled]

Have you heard if we are any closer to seeing the production of this cam? My 110 sure would like it.