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[Bearcat1]

So I have read where some are using a 60 weight conventional oil, such as Amsoil, in their 110's and it's been said that it helps with the 110 valve train noise that some of us experience.  Sure, it's just helping to mask the issue I guess you could say but if it helps reduce the noise with minimal effects on performance and the engine (if any), then why not if it helps give piece of mind?  I'd like to know opinions on this as opposed to sticking with a 20-50 synthetic oil??  When I had my bike checked at my Harley dealer with regards to the noise, the tech acknowledged that there was valve train noise and that it was normal of course.  He then suggested I use a conventional weight oil instead of synthetic if I wanted to quiet it down some.  Just sayin.  Thanks

[muddypaws]

It does make noise but what is better for the overall life of the motor.

[Bearcat1]

It does make noise but what is better for the overall life of the motor.

I don't know...you tell me...

[Midnight Rider]

First, I thought all Amsoil for motorcycles was synthetic   

I'm running Redline 20W60 Synthetic in my bike, but it's hot as Hades here in Alabama.  I can't quantify the difference in noise level between it and their 20W50.

Personally, I would never run Dino oil in a 110" HD engine for two reasons: One, I am confident that the oil will still do what it's supposed to do with 5K change intervals (actually, it would do more, but that's the recommended interval to keep the warranty in place), and Two, I know that synthetic oil can withstand higher operating temperatures without breaking down.

I don't subscribe to the notion that a straight 60 weight oil is "better" or makes the bike quieter.  What happens when your bike is stone cold and it's 40 degrees outside when you crank it up?  The whole purpose for a multiviscosity oil is to allow a better flow when cold, and starting a cold engine is when you want to be sure oil is being pumped freely through all those small passages in the engine.

Even if it did make the engine quieter (which I doubt), I'd be hesitant to do it unless the bike lived in a very warm/hot climate year 'round.

[grc]

Not sure what you are calling conventional oil.  Amsoil, for instance, doesn't sell "conventional" oil, all they sell is synthetic.  If you mean single or straight weight oil, then it all depends on where you ride and the climate.  If you always ride where the ambient temperatures are relatively high, a single grade oil is fine.  In fact, if you read your manual you will see that Harley shows straight 60 weight being acceptable under those conditions.  But if you ride where temperatures sometimes dip below what's common in south Texas or Florida or other tropical climes, a multigrade oil is a better choice because it flows much better when the engine is started cold and as it warms up.  The whole intent is to quickly get oil flowing to the moving parts in sufficient volume to lubricate and protect them, and that doesn't happen with a straight 60 weight at low temps.

One common misconception is that a multigrade 20w50 or 20w60 is somehow "thinner" than a straight weight 50 or 60.  It isn't.  So I tend to view these recommendations by non-experts in petroleum engineering to be not much different than the wives tales that say synthetics are too slippery.

If you want to try a higher viscosity oil for hot weather, you don't necessarily have to use a straight weight.  Redline sells a 20w60 for Harley's, and I believe I remember seeing 20w60 from one or two other companies as well.  Don't get your hopes up that a simple change from 50 weight to 60 weight is going to cure the ills of your Harley however.  I've seen some make claims that changing from SYN3 to Amsoil  "cured" their noisy engine, made it run 30° cooler, freshioned their breath, and regrew hair.  It's amazing what people can make themselves believe, and what they then post for others to read.

If you want to fix the valve train noise, get rid of the heavy valves and springs, get rid of the cams and replace them with a low lift slow ramp design, and buy some decent lifters and pushrods.  That will kill some performance of course, but it should be a bit quieter.  On the other hand, even a standard Twin Cam with a mild low lift cam makes some noise.  Most mechanical devices do.  Stick your head under the hood of your car or truck and tell me you can't hear any mechanical noise.  If you tell me that, I'm going to suggest you try it again but this time do it with the engine running.  Of course you can't hear all that racket sitting in the driver's seat as you roll down the highway.  That has a lot to do with all the sound deadeners the auto folks build into their vehicles.  Harley's have no sound deadeners, and you're sitting directly over the engine.  To make matters even worse, baggers have fairings and windshields and lowers reflecting even more of the noise up to your ears.  Remove just the lowers and you'll be amazed at how much "quieter" that 110 becomes while cruising down the highway.


Jerry

[LC110]

Read what Jerry has written. If you still feel the need try a heavier oil than look at one of the many 25w60 they will serve you better than a straight 60 weight.

[Bearcat1]

Not sure what you are calling conventional oil.  Amsoil, for instance, doesn't sell "conventional" oil, all they sell is synthetic.  If you mean single or straight weight oil, then it all depends on where you ride and the climate.  If you always ride where the ambient temperatures are relatively high, a single grade oil is fine.  In fact, if you read your manual you will see that Harley shows straight 60 weight being acceptable under those conditions.  But if you ride where temperatures sometimes dip below what's common in south Texas or Florida or other tropical climes, a multigrade oil is a better choice because it flows much better when the engine is started cold and as it warms up.  The whole intent is to quickly get oil flowing to the moving parts in sufficient volume to lubricate and protect them, and that doesn't happen with a straight 60 weight at low temps.

One common misconception is that a multigrade 20w50 or 20w60 is somehow "thinner" than a straight weight 50 or 60.  It isn't.  So I tend to view these recommendations by non-experts in petroleum engineering to be not much different than the wives tales that say synthetics are too slippery.

If you want to try a higher viscosity oil for hot weather, you don't necessarily have to use a straight weight.  Redline sells a 20w60 for Harley's, and I believe I remember seeing 20w60 from one or two other companies as well.  Don't get your hopes up that a simple change from 50 weight to 60 weight is going to cure the ills of your Harley however.  I've seen some make claims that changing from SYN3 to Amsoil  "cured" their noisy engine, made it run 30° cooler, freshioned their breath, and regrew hair.  It's amazing what people can make themselves believe, and what they then post for others to read.

If you want to fix the valve train noise, get rid of the heavy valves and springs, get rid of the cams and replace them with a low lift slow ramp design, and buy some decent lifters and pushrods.  That will kill some performance of course, but it should be a bit quieter.  On the other hand, even a standard Twin Cam with a mild low lift cam makes some noise.  Most mechanical devices do.  Stick your head under the hood of your car or truck and tell me you can't hear any mechanical noise.  If you tell me that, I'm going to suggest you try it again but this time do it with the engine running.  Of course you can't hear all that racket sitting in the driver's seat as you roll down the highway.  That has a lot to do with all the sound deadeners the auto folks build into their vehicles.  Harley's have no sound deadeners, and you're sitting directly over the engine.  To make matters even worse, baggers have fairings and windshields and lowers reflecting even more of the noise up to your ears.  Remove just the lowers and you'll be amazed at how much "quieter" that 110 becomes while cruising down the highway.


Jerry

Jerry, good stuff and exactly what I was hoping someone would chime in with.  Sounds like you know what you are talking about.  As far as the "conventional" oil, yes, I was meaning Amsoil's straight 60 weight synthetic oil.  I am in South Texas so we do occasionally get a pretty good cold spell in winter time.  So having said that I think I will give a 20w60 synthetic oil a shot next time just to see if anything changes.  Can't hurt to try I guess.

I also understand what you are saying about going into the mechanics of the bike.  That's always an option I guess if I ever decide to go that route.  Guess I would rather try simpler means at this point.  Or at least try to find a happy medium.

I actually did remove my lowers for a few weeks and it really did quiet it down as you said.  Much better.  But unfortunately I like having my lowers on enough that I put them back on.  And the noise came back.  So I am going to give the 20w60 a go soon (almost to 5,000 mile service) and maybe I can find that happy medium.  Thanks again!

[lilcoot]

I agree with Jerry's advice.

BUT... in places where it's really hot in the summers like here in Southern Cali, several knowledgeable people have told me that they will only use 60w synthetic in their Harleys. 

I'm not sure it makes that much difference one way or another, as long as you use quality oils and keep the levels up.

As far as quieting down some of the mechanical noise, I noticed a big difference when I replaced the Harley snake oil in the tranny with Redline w/ Shockproof.  60w might make a little difference in the noise, but I don't think it will be very noticeable.

Just my two cents.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Service manual states the use of 60W in sustained ambient temps above 80* F.
Scott

[grc]

Service manual states the use of 60W in sustained ambient temps above 80* F.
Scott

Yup.  Of course there aren't all that many places in the USA where the temperatures (day and night) never fall below 80°F.  So unless folks want to change oil every time a cold front rolls through, or south Texas or south Florida get one of those weird winters where they get frost, it makes a whole lot more sense to just use the multigrade product and make sure the engine is protected on those cold starts.  Most engine wear occurs on cold starts and during warm-up, so it makes a lot more sense to worry about that rather than follow the lead of some old timer who used straight 50 weight on his Knuckle or Shovel with the quarter inch running clearances.  Modern times, modern machining and tolerances, modern motor oil technology; seems like a good match to me.  And don't expect motor oil to fix mechanical defects or poor designs, no matter what magical properties the marketing folks might attach to their products.

The entire subject of motor oil is so filled with misinformation that it's hard for the untrained or uninitiated to figure out what's right and what's wrong.  When in doubt, I think I'd rely more on the manufacturer of the engine or the technical staff at the oil company than I would some guy at the dealership or a bunch of guys at the Hog rally or some of the ridiculous stuff you find on the internet these days.  btw, a little sawdust in the oil will quiet things down pretty well (for awhile).  


Jerry

[Sklywag]

So you really wnt to tak about noise, heat & oil?  Let talk about Arizona.  Lets talk about 110* + on a continual basis and nights that stay above 85*, sometimes not getting below 90*.  This summer has been hot, we haven't seen a day under 105 in months, most days are over 110, finally this week we are starting to cool off, only going to be a 100.

Now while it isn't a 110, my 103 runs .575 lift cams with gear drive & my 103 makes 104/114 & will give the 110's a run for the money any day.

So what do I run for oil when it is 117*, Red Line 20-60, is the motor noisy, sure it is, 1st it's a HD, plus it's all exposed & you hear everything, every little sound.  How noisy, i'm not sure how to compare that unless they are sitting side by side at the same time.  Does it bother me, nope because I know what is in the motor, how it's built & what the noises are, they are all ok noises.

I can tell you this, it has taken me 6 months to convince my neighbor, 09, 103 SG, 203 cams, to convert from Syn3 to RL 20-60.  I listened to him complain about noise & heat for the last year.  He just made the change 3 weeks ago and now says why didn't you make me do it sooner.  His motor is definitely quieter now.  We also added a 10 row JAGG Cooler.

Why don't I run single weight 60?  Because we travel to the high country on & off all summer, it is real easy to get above 7k feet and morning temperatures above 7k feet in the summer are still cool.  I want the 20-60 for all the conditions I ride in.

Hope this helps.  Put 20-60 Red Line or Amzoil in it & ride.

[cahdbiker]

bearcat1 , The last time I changed oil in my 09 I used  Amsoil SAE 60 Synthetic Super Heavy Weight Racing Oil. I also substituted almost one quart of engine oil with Lucas non synthetic oil stabilizer. (it is compatable with synthetics according to the Lucas tech). Went for a ride and even after the oil was at full operating temp I felt as though things had become overall quieter. The Amsoil 60 weight pours out at about the consistency of regular 30 wt. which was surprising because I expected it to be a lot thicker like HD 50 or 60 straight dino which pours out if the bottle at about the consistency of honey. I had about 2 more pounds of oil pressure when cold,(34) but as soon as things got warmed up everything went back to normal. 32 lbs on the freeway and between 12 to 16 lbs at idle. This was done on a hot day around 100 degrees.  I also wanted to see if I could get the straight cut 5th gear to quiet down a little more so I called Lucas again and they said it was okay to put not more than 6 ounces of their heavy duty oil stabilizer in the trans which I use Amsoil 75-140 severe gear lube. That also seemed to quiet down. I did these tests separately so I could tell if I really had made any improvements. It is by no means perfect I still have some noises, but just not as loud. CAHDBIKER

[Bearcat1]

bearcat1 , The last time I changed oil in my 09 I used  Amsoil SAE 60 Synthetic Super Heavy Weight Racing Oil. I also substituted almost one quart of engine oil with Lucas non synthetic oil stabilizer. (it is compatable with synthetics according to the Lucas tech). Went for a ride and even after the oil was at full operating temp I felt as though things had become overall quieter. The Amsoil 60 weight pours out at about the consistency of regular 30 wt. which was surprising because I expected it to be a lot thicker like HD 50 or 60 straight dino which pours out if the bottle at about the consistency of honey. I had about 2 more pounds of oil pressure when cold,(34) but as soon as things got warmed up everything went back to normal. 32 lbs on the freeway and between 12 to 16 lbs at idle. This was done on a hot day around 100 degrees.  I also wanted to see if I could get the straight cut 5th gear to quiet down a little more so I called Lucas again and they said it was okay to put not more than 6 ounces of their heavy duty oil stabilizer in the trans which I use Amsoil 75-140 severe gear lube. That also seemed to quiet down. I did these tests separately so I could tell if I really had made any improvements. It is by no means perfect I still have some noises, but just not as loud. CAHDBIKER

Thanks for that info, I've decided to give the Red Line 20w60 a go and just ordered some.  Even a little bit less noise would be a plus for me.  Especially since I got the Red Line for $12.60 a quart.  I felt that was pretty descent.

[CVODON]

I really think the fact you think your engine is quieter with straight weight oil, is you want it to be. No reason in 2012 to use a straight weight. Start up is where most of the wear occurs, not running down the road with lube circulating at 32# of pressure. Harleys main objective in the first three or warranty years is wear prevention results in lower warranty ratio. If that straight weight would cut wear, and cost the same you can bet your butt all the HD's would use 100 weight.
Listen to GRC, he is once again right on in this matter.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Service manual also states 50W in ambient temps above 60*.
Scott