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[grc]

Freight is a legitimate charge.  Prep or setup is not.  The most I would pay would be MSRP plus freight.  No prep fee, no doc fee, no other BS fees.  If the local thief won't sell for that price, look elsewhere.  There are plenty of MSRP dealers all across this country.  And if you're the type to buy a service contract (ESP), shop around on that also.  There are plenty of dealers who will discount that as well.

Trust me, anything you pay over MSRP is just money thrown down a rat hole and you will not recoup it when you sell that hokey 105th or 110th anniversary bike a few years down the road.  Harley's "every five years" anniversary bikes aren't worth a nickel more than the regular bikes, no matter what they and their dealers try to make you believe.


Jerry

[bmcgc]

The industry has made the "standard" to include MSRP, freight, doc.  99% of the dealers will not budge off that unless Harley is giving them incentives to sell slow moving or previous year models.

Many dealers have added a premium for high end bikes like the CVO, setup, and prep.

Most dealers in the Southeast are charging $2500-5000 over msrp for CVOs.

An Atlanta dealer tried to sell a 110th Ultra for MSRP + freight + $5000 + doc + TTL + $1900 in added fees.

The guy came down here and bought the same bike for $4400 less.

Harley claims that selling at MSRP keeps the value of used bikes up.  That was true when they limited production, but the market is flooded with late model low mileage Harleys now.

IMO if you want to play you have to pay.  A CVO is a luxury item producded in limited quanities.  Dealers are not going to be cutting any deals on 13s until next October.

[Kingspoke]

 You really can't fault the dealers . . .



You must have never met my local dealer.

I hear what you're saying, but you just walk away and shop elsewhere.  A dealer can only do as much as consumer is allowing him.  These are luxury items not necessities.

[Porschestan]

I hear what you're saying, but you just walk away and shop elsewhere.  A dealer can only do as much as consumer is allowing him.  These are luxury items not necessities.

I agree, offer them the green and start walking..their showrooms are not empty.  If you find the one you are in love with early in the year msrp, period should do it.  Over msrp, no way..

[hdblackice2007]

CHI TOWN HARLEY IS $ 2000 OVER ON CVO AND ANNVERSITY MODEL SAYING EVERY DEALER IS GETTING 1 ANNV. MODEL OF EACH MODEL THERE IS 650 DEALERS IN THE US AND THEN HARLEY WILL GIVE OUT HOW THEY WANT
ALL ORTHER BIKE MSRP THEY WILL NOT SELL IF YOU LIVE OUTSIDE ILLINOIS I GUESS IT BETTER THAN $5000 OVER LIKE OUT WEST WHAT DOES HARLEY THINK THIS YEAR 2OOO

[D-N-D]

No way I would pay over MSRP, MSRP or LESS no Freight or setup charge !!!!!!!!!! I purchased 3 CVO's and never paid MSRP or Freight & Setup.

[cvobiker]

MSRP out the door....(IOW- no taxes and or additional fees)  I consider this a fair deal for both dealer and me... Oregon has made on this one.   

[ultrarider123]

Developing a relationship with the dealer helps.  MSRP is the norm but negotiations are not illegal. I've bought my fair share (and according to my wife, a couple other folks fair share, too... )of vehicles.  There are some places I will never return to because of how I was treated (cage and bike dealerships).  There are a couple places that I will go to first for a new bike.  In most cases, if you have a dealership you like and have a good relationship with, MSRP is no longer on the table.  Fees?  Hey, somebody has to get them to the dealership, un-crate and prep them before we take 'em home.  Are they too much?  Probably.

Bottom line is we pay for what we want.  If we feel like we got a good deal (whether we actually did or not) we go home happy.  I paid $32K out the door on my 2012 SESG and felt pretty good about it.....except I spent $32 THOUSAND DOLLARS ON A MODERCIKLE!!!!

Oh well, can't take it with you...never saw a garage beside a grave site...

[Dare]

Oh well, can't take it with you...never saw a garage beside a grave site...
I also look at it this way, MSRP yep done that....spending the kids inheritance...yep doing that...thats what a life insurance policy is for.

[Porschestan]

Oh well, can't take it with you...never saw a garage beside a grave site...
I also look at it this way, MSRP yep done that....spending the kids inheritance...yep doing that...thats what a life insurance policy is for.

Yes x2 And I wholehartly agree spend the kids $$$, any yes buy as must life ins as you can afford!!

[HogBreath]

I've bought 8 bikes. First three were non CVO. Paid below MSRP on all three. I paid MSRP on all the CVOs. Out the door no taxes included. Always handled that myself except the last one. My normal dealer wanted 5K over MSRP so I called another dealer and bought the 11 RGU sight unseen. When I was ready to close the deal they tried to add doc fees and sales tax. I balked on the doc fees refusing to pay it. They calculated 6%sales tax on MSRP. State of Ky calculates 6% tax on 90% of MSRP. Again I balked. I would have walked out first. I also refuse to pay 450 for a damn HD leather jacket.

[Midnight Rider]

Frieght charges are legit.  Are they too much?  It depends on where you live relative to the production site.  They charge the same amount no matter if it's delivered to Southern CA or to Ohio.  They just average it out.  Car dealers do the same thing.  Setup fees are a ripoff...from my understanding HD pays the dealer to do that in the first place.  Doc Fees?  Some dealers will negotiate that, some won't.  It is a standard practice throughout the car/bike industry.  Personally, I'm not going to walk out the door over $300 when $35K is on the table.  If I was writing a check for it...maybe, 'cause you've got more power in that situation, to some extent, though dealerships would prefer non-cash deals in the majority of cases because they make money off the financing as well.  If they are offering you 3.9%, you can just about bet that they are actually getting the loan for 2.9% and pocketing the 1%.  So, that's negotiable to some extent as well.  HD dealers are a little different in that respect because most of the time the financing is done through the mothership.  Otherwise they (especially car dealers) will shop your financing and they'll have 4 or 5 companies they can choose for financing.  That's how the finance guys make their money, so they HATE cash deals.

[grc]

In the auto business we charged freight on an average basis versus trying to use a convoluted (and sure to be complained about) system that attempted to figure an amount for each different dealership.  And part of the charge was for shipping parts to the assembly point, not just for shipping the final product to the dealership.  We used to get folks all the time who would  ask if they could pick up their new car or truck at the assembly plant to avoid the shipping charge.  It always amazed me how folks would obsess over a few hundred bucks when they were buying a $25k to $50k vehicle.  Humans sure are a strange species.  Btw, the answer was no, even if the dealer and customer arranged to pick the vehicle up at the assembly plant, they still got charged for the freight.


Jerry

[Kingspoke]

The reason I believe that the freight and set up are B.S. (and I may be wrong) is because they are not part of the MSRP.  The dealers invoice I believe includes the costs of shipping & setup, but I would like to hear from someone that actually knows for certain.  

The other area that raises my concern is the large discrepancy between dealers in the same area for setup charges.  One may charge $499 and another $1200.  

Would Moco suggest a selling price and the dealership accept a bike without the understanding that the suggested price must minimally include what it will cost the dealership in freight and setup?

For example, I paid $2,500 below MSRP on a 2012 Ultra (In Sept.) and negotiated, no freight or setup fees.  Should I believe that the dealer sold me the bike at a loss?  I'm doubtful, that they would have made the deal if that is the case.  What would be their incentive to do so?

[grc]

The reason I believe that the freight and set up are B.S. (and I may be wrong) is because they are not part of the MSRP.  The dealers invoice I believe includes the costs of shipping & setup, but I would like to hear from someone that actually knows for certain.  

The other area that raises my concern is the large discrepancy between dealers in the same area for setup charges.  One may charge $499 and another $1200.  

Would Moco suggest a selling price and the dealership accept a bike without the understanding that the suggested price must minimally include what it will cost the dealership in freight and setup?

For example, I paid $2,500 below MSRP on a 2012 Ultra (In Sept.) and negotiated, no freight or setup fees.  Should I believe that the dealer sold me the bike at a loss?  I'm doubtful, that they would have made the deal if that is the case.  What would be their incentive to do so?

If you consider there is an approximate $6500 - $7000 gross profit built in to the MSRP of a CUSE7, even at $2500 below MSRP your dealer still did very well.  Profit margins on Harley's, especially CVO's, are much higher than what you find over at your Ford or Chevy or Toyota dealership.

As for the prep or setup fee, that is a totally BS charge that just adds to the dealer profits.  Harley requires the dealer to do a basic minimum "setup" on the bikes (there is a specific set of instructions and a form the dealer has to fill out), and Harley pays the dealer to do this.  It's the same thing in the auto business.  Dealers figured out a long time ago they could bamboozle customers into paying extra for so-called "prep", and they've been screwing the public for decades with that scam.  And IMHO that 1000 mile service is just one more "extra dealer profit" item as well.  No other vehicle on the market that I'm aware of requires an initial service at such a low mileage.  The average dealership charges $350 - $400 for what is basically a simple oil change to dump nearly new oil.  Auto manufacturers on the other hand call for a first service at 5000 or 7500 miles in most cases. 

btw, the dealer is automatically credited for the "prep" when he reports the bike sold.  And yes, freight is listed on the invoice.  And invoice doesn't account for any incentive payments the dealer also gets from Harley (or an auto dealer gets from their manufacturer).  So the profit I mentioned earlier is the minimum; the maximum can vary widely depending on various hidden incentives the customers never know about.  Never feel sorry for a Harley dealer who sells at MSRP.  Trust me, they are doing much better on profit per unit than the auto store down the road (unless it's a Ferrari store). 


Jerry