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[WYD OPN]

WYD OPN you have clearly done a lot of work on this

Clearly.  Triple-digit hours.  And I've shared it all with the forum...gratis.

but you still haven't answer the questions I asked above.

Hello!... Call MoCo Customer Service.  But here's a copy of the e-mail FROM H-D for the 2000 FLTRSEI.  (Did you check my numbers against Brian's letter for the omitted CAL quantities in that "letter-documentation"? [by an employee trading hours for dollars instead of an enthusiast/owner researching on a scale equivalent to publishing a book with exhaustive numbers.]

Table 1. 2000 FLTRSEI Road Glide Special (EFI) (PAC) Production Numbers

Model Code
Color Code
Color Description
AUS
BRZ
CAL
CAN
DOM
ENG
HDI
JPN
P&A
Total

1PAC2
012
BLACK/ORANGE
0
0
0
37
693
0
0
0
0
730

1PAC6
012
BLACK/ORANGE
0
0
63
0
0
0
0
0
0
63

1PAC2
030
3/TONE RED
0
0
0
36
649
0
0
0
0
685

1PAC6
030
3/TONE RED
0
0
83
0
0
0
0
0
0
83

Total:


0
0
146
73
1,342
0
0
0
0
1,561





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The format is a pain unless you've already spent many hours sorting through over 40 of them.

In a world of verification, documentation and credibility the written word from a public source is what I rely on.
As hard as it is to pin the Motor Company down on anything in writing, when they post numbers for production for the public it's hard for me to under why those numbers don't add up to yours.

Example

your production numbers for the 12 SERGC
"2012 FLTRXSE  ROAD GLIDE CUSTOM:  2,643"

The Motor Company numbers are
"approx. 1485"

Although the Motor Company numbers states their numbers are approx.
It's difficult for me to believe the Motor Company numbers are off by 1158 bikes.
2643 -1485 = 1158

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/2013-Motorcycles/cvo-history.html

                         

SBB

Great.  I think you should go with those approximate numbers listed on the website instead of my exhaustive breakdown of every detail I've provided for everyone from my efforts.

Call MoCo Customer Service.  Give 'em the VIN for your FLTRXSE.  Tell us what they tell you.  Dana is one of the initial CSRs you might speak with.

At this point, I have to say "Seriously?!"  Have you looked at the bulk and detail of info from a year ago in the "CVO Numbers" thread?  Do you and whoever else think I sat down and fabricated all the numbers for every year/model/color/market?  Or that I found a big sheet of paper blowing across the road with bogus numbers on it?  What about my numbers that match your letter for the FLTRSEI2?  Are those not credible?

At this point, I'd remove all the data I've posted if I could.  I did it as a contribution to the CVO community.  Hopefully, some recognize that and realize this is THE credible and final source for all this info that everybody's wanted since 1999.

(continued...post too long)

[WYD OPN]

And here's a copy of the e-mail on the 2012s.

CVO ULTRA CLASSIC ELECTRA GLIDE (1PR8) Production Numbers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Model Code
Color Code
Color Description
APC
AUS
BZL
BRZ
CAL
CAN
DOM
ENG
HDI
IND
JPN
Total
 
 
 
1PR8
199
SPECIAL 199
0
0
0
0
1
0
5
0
1
0
0
7
 
 
 
1PR8
502
ELE ORG/BLK DIA W/ PINSTRIPE
0
9
0
0
71
54
1,132
7
154
0
66
1,493
 
 
 
1PR8
503
CRY CITRON/DUST W/ PINSTRIPE
0
17
0
0
27
20
474
8
77
0
40
663
 
 
 
1PR8
504
SAPHIRE/STR SLV W/ PINSTRIPE
0
23
0
0
62
40
808
25
188
0
47
1,193
 
 
 
TOTAL:
 
 
0
49
0
0
161
114
2,419
40
420
0
153
3,356
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
2012 FLHXSE3 CVO STREET GLIDE (1PZ8) Production Numbers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Model Code
Color Code
Color Description
APC
AUS
BZL
BRZ
CAL
CAN
DOM
ENG
HDI
IND
JPN
Total
 
 
 
1PZ8
199
SPECIAL 199
0
0
0
0
1
0
3
0
1
0
0
5
 
 
 
1PZ8
505
RUBY RED/MAROON W/ PINSTRIPE
0
16
0
0
32
84
729
12
87
0
83
1,043
 
 
 
1PZ8
506
CITRUS/GUNSTOCK W/ PINSTRIPE
0
9
0
0
28
142
967
8
143
0
76
1,373
 
 
 
1PZ8
507
SLV ICE/INDIGO W/ PINSTRIPE
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
1
 
 
 
1PZ8
508
DRK SLT/BLK DIA W/ PINSTRIPE
0
26
0
0
104
120
1,083
5
301
0
114
1,753
 
 
 
TOTAL:
 
 
0
51
0
0
165
346
2,783
25
532
0
273
4,175
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
2012 FLSTSE3 CVO SOFTAIL CONVERTIBLE (1PY9) Production Numbers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Model Code
Color Code
Color Description
APC
AUS
BZL
BRZ
CAL
CAN
DOM
ENG
HDI
IND
JPN
Total
 
 
 
1PY9
199
SPECIAL 199
0
0
0
0
1
0
4
0
0
0
0
5
 
 
 
1PY9
528
CRIM RED SUNGLO W/ PINSTRIPE
0
26
0
0
20
18
422
10
59
0
96
651
 
 
 
1PY9
529
SATIN PEWTER W/ PINSTRIPE
0
10
0
0
20
6
304
20
136
0
42
538
 
 
 
1PY9
530
ABYSS BLUE W/ PINSTRIPE
0
20
0
0
24
5
266
11
56
0
56
438
 
 
 
TOTAL:
 
 
0
56
0
0
65
29
996
41
251
0
194
1,632
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
2012 FLTRXSE CVO ROAD GLIDE CUSTOM (1TC8) Production Numbers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Model Code
Color Code
Color Description
APC
AUS
BZL
BRZ
CAL
CAN
DOM
ENG
HDI
IND
JPN
Total
 
 
 
1TC8
199
SPECIAL 199
0
0
0
0
1
0
2
0
1
0
0
4
 
 
 
1TC8
509
MAPLE/V BLACK W/ PINSTRIPE
0
0
0
0
69
49
552
4
78
0
47
799
 
 
 
1TC8
510
COBALT/TW BLUE W/ PINSTRIPE
0
0
0
0
35
37
416
4
50
0
60
602
 
 
 
1TC8
511
WHT GOLDS/S BLK W/ PINSTRIPE
0
0
0
0
75
49
795
3
231
0
85
1,238
 
 
 
TOTAL:
 
 
0
0
0
0
180
135
1,765
11
360
0
192
2,643

I came to this site looking for all these numbers.  After compiling all I could by searching through many threads.  Much info was missing, and I never questioned info from letters and phone calls.  Then a few of them didn't add up, beginning with the discrepancies in numbers for the Blue Flame FXRs that had been quoted as 64 for many years based on a single letter.  That number could never be verified again, when others releatedly called MoCo or asked for a letter.

Only a handful of errors were given out via letter or phone, and I know exactly what they all are and why.  For some, it was missing JPN (Japan) numbers because a few models were redesignated for sale there with different prefixes.

MY numbers are from the MoCo database, untouched by human error.  Call MoCo for your FLTRXSE numbers.  Do you really think there were only 1,485 in hopes it's more rare or something?  There were 1,238 White/Blacks alone.

Other than that, I don't know what to tell you.  I've provided information nobody else has even whiffed at.  This had ended up being like a Religion or Politics topic.  Good grief-amundo.

[WYD OPN]

Gotcha.  This summary was misleading. 

No, this summary is accurate but doesn't include the few SPECIALS and NCOB bikes.  That exhaustive info was posted separately nearly a year ago.

Tough crowd.

[110tHunDer]

 
You've been on the site for 1 1/2 years.  It shouldn't be a new phenomenon to you that people don't trust numbers that are spouted off without proof.  State your case with the facts as you've done and then lighten up.  Harley's tend to spark a lot of passion .... yes, right next to politics and religion.

And .... thanks for providing this info.

[SBB]

MY numbers are from the MoCo database, untouched by human error.  

Kinda sensitive huh?
I'm just wondering where you get your numbers.
If you are saying above you have direct connection to the MOCO database then the numbers are what they are.
I'm not questioning your credibility, I'm only asking if your source is credible.
You have told us that sometimes info from the MOCO can be wrong.
I appreciate your efforts but I'm just trying to figure out who/what to believe.
Either way, I think I'll go for a ride.

SBB

[TN]

WYD OPN

I for one can appreciate your effort and sharing the numbers of such. The collection you have on hand is impressive to say the least. Open debates are a good thing and conflicting info is nothing new from the MOCO. I know for a fact that the MOCO regularly visits this site but chooses not to participate except for there own research. It seems that this info could be verified on a open forum without prejudice. I for one would love to see your bikes, are they on display to enjoy?



Ride On


TN

[WYD OPN]

WYD OPN

I for one can appreciate your effort and sharing the numbers of such.

Thanks.  It was a labor of love to get the facts.

The collection you have on hand is impressive to say the least. Open debates are a good thing and conflicting info is nothing new from the MOCO. I know for a fact that the MOCO regularly visits this site but chooses not to participate except for there own research. It seems that this info could be verified on a open forum without prejudice.

It's a phone call away, one model at a time.  :-)

I for one would love to see your bikes, are they on display to enjoy?

It will be at some point, along with my Superbikes.  For now, they're in a multi-level climate-controlled storage facility where my clients store their high-end boats, cars, and bikes.  The plan is to build a mini-museum.  (And the displays will all have the printed specs of each model, including production numbers; hence my "project" of accumulating the data.  :-)  I've done the same for my other bikes, to the extent possible.



[/quote]

[WYD OPN]

You've been on the site for 1 1/2 years.  It shouldn't be a new phenomenon to you that people don't trust numbers that are spouted off without proof.

At that level, it's not.  But have you looked at the bulk and detail of the data I've compiled and posted?  LOL.  It's not spouting off numbers.  I'd have to be demented to post such a volume of bogus info.

State your case with the facts as you've done and then lighten up.  Harley's tend to spark a lot of passion .... yes, right next to politics and religion.

I'd say my "case" is the copious volume of data, especially when specific discrepancies are accounted for.

And .... thanks for providing this info.

:-)

[Wild Card]

No, this summary is accurate but doesn't include the few SPECIALS and NCOB bikes.  That exhaustive info was posted separately nearly a year ago.

Tough crowd.

Actually, your summary IS misleading.  I never claimed it was inaccurate.  Why not include specials in the production numbers summary?  That's all I'm saying.  

I was here to commend your efforts; now I'm seeing that you are susceptible to the same human error we should all be skeptical of.  Is it possible your numbers are inaccurate after all?  You see what everyone is getting at now?

[110tHunDer]

...  I'd have to be demented to post such a volume of bogus info. ...

Yes, you would.  Unfortunately, it's happened before.

[WYD OPN]

Kinda sensitive huh?

No.  Just rational enough to weigh the data for every year/model/color/maket against one piece of info that can be easily accounted for.

I'm just wondering where you get your numbers.  If you are saying above you have direct connection to the MOCO database then the numbers are what they are.
I'm not questioning your credibility, I'm only asking if your source is credible.

My initial source was Suzie (now retired).  I have enough correspondence in my customer accounts notes, that now I'm directly transferred from a CSR to management for my requests.  It was Suzie who gave out the wrong FXR numbers years ago, and we discussed that last year before she retired.  Suzie is the one who initiated sending the copy/pastes to avoid any transcription errors or omissions.  She admitted it was difficult for CSRs to access, read, and release all the database columnar info.  It's not the majority of their job-descriptions.  They keep the calls short and sweet to meet their internal customer satisfaction and call-volume numbers.

You have told us that sometimes info from the MOCO can be wrong.

95% of the individual numbers you've seen from letters and calls is accurate.  I've accounted for the specific errors.

I appreciate your efforts but I'm just trying to figure out who/what to believe.

For over 1/3 of the data, there's NOBODY else to believe since the info didn't exist on the forum or in correspondence.  And over 80% of the detailed breakdown had never been seen before outside MoCo... per Suzie.  She said it was an unprecedented volume of CVO info that had never been given out before.  It took me 3 months to get the initial portion.  The rest took another two months.  Now I just make one phone call each year between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and I get transferred to management for them to copy-paste the entire model-year data.

Either way, I think I'll go for a ride.

SBB

When you get back from your ride, call MoCo with your FLTRXSE VIN and ask for the numbers.  Tell us what they tell you.

[WYD OPN]

Actually, your summary IS misleading.  I never claimed it was inaccurate.  Why not include specials in the production numbers summary?  That's all I'm saying.

Because they're in the much-more-detailed breakdown of each year/model/color/market.  

I was here to commend your efforts; now I'm seeing that you are susceptible to the same human error we should all be skeptical of.  Is it possible your numbers are inaccurate after all?  You see what everyone is getting at now?

No.  The numbers are all where I said they were.  Go look.  "CVO Numbers" thread.  Read back a year.  You're a year late to criticize the data.  The 2012 data I ADDED was an addendum.  And I reposted the summary list since nobody seemed to bother looking at the posts from last year that have been bumped with the 2012 update.

It's only misleading if you ignore the rest of the information from last year that's readily available.  There's no error.  Go look at the per-model-year breakdowns.

Good... and... Grief.  This is ridiculous.  Call/write MoCo and get all 14 years of data for yourself.  I did, and shared it so nobody else would have to and because nobody else ever did or would.

Criticisms about the format being misleading are bogus and irrational.

[WYD OPN]

Yes, you would.  Unfortunately, it's happened before.

I must have missed when every year/model/color/market was ever posted before.  :-P

There are even USA and Int'l "Rarity" lists through the 2011s, showing least-to-most quantities for colors and models USA/Int'l.

Nothing even close to this bulk of data has been presented; and I didn't even include model and paint codes.

[Wrongway]

 I hate to see people complaining about the numbers WYD has recieved and posted for us. I myself have spent many hours adding this to the spread sheet provided. CAN YOU DO BETTER? If so, DO IT!
 I have not seen an OFFICIAL letter from the MOCO since 2005! Have you? If you don't like what we have provided for you all, GET IT YOURSELF!     Done

[110tHunDer]

 
You're taking my comments much too literally and so it seems you may be missing my point.  No, it didn't happen with production volumes posted to this level of detail before.

Anyway, thanks again for the information.  I'll be moving along now ...