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Author Topic: Oil Filter  (Read 6126 times)

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doublerunner

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2013, 12:30:35 PM »

What is the absolute micron size being filtred by these filters, ie; the HD (heavy duty) or what ever the HD one that we r talking about vs. the K&N version????

I went to the KN site and this was all the info they had

http://www.knfilters.com/wrenchoff_oilfilter.htm

No specs on the microns. However I checked on JP cycles and they sell it for $3.50 LESS than direct from KN. At least that is what the websites say.
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LC110

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2013, 02:03:35 PM »

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grc

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2013, 04:16:39 PM »

I seldom post, but I do lurk on the sidelines - That said, I felt compelled to throw a wrench into the works on this topic.

I read all I could find on various filters when I was making my decision. That was 2005 or so and things may have changed since then. As I recall the HD filter has a 5 pound bypass valve, and all the others that I could find the information on were higher. Ten of fifteen pounds does not sound like a lot, but it is double and triple the manufactures value.

That said I know plenty of folks that swear be this or that filter, and have fine results. I'll stick to HD. Ride safe Tom

The older H-D filters had a very low bypass pressure, around 6 to 8 psi if I remember correctly.  I understand the latest version raised the bypass pressure a few psi to be more competitive with the other brands.

Btw, when you're talking about an oil filter a low bypass pressure is a BAD thing, not a good one.  The valve measures the difference in pressure from the inlet side of the filter to the exit side, and when that pressure difference reaches the setting of the valve it allows oil to bypass the filter.  In other words, the dirty oil doesn't get filtered and goes straight to the engine.  The purpose of such valves is to prevent oil starvation when the engine oil is very thick after a cold start, or when flow through the filter is restricted for any other reason like clogged media.  But when the valve setting is too low, oil is allowed to bypass the filter too often, even when there is no chance of starving the engine for oil. 

Jerry
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buell95

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2013, 05:21:57 PM »

Do a search on the K&P reusable filter
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grc

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2013, 05:27:47 PM »

Do a search on the K&P reusable filter

Why?

Jerry
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buell95

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2013, 05:38:46 PM »

The Harley filter is very good actually, so the decision really comes down to other factors.  Personally, I use the K&N filter with the 17mm nut on the end.  It's a very good filter as well, with the added benefit of being very easy to remove thanks to that nut.

The only definite recommendation I'll make is to avoid the so-called permanent filters on the market.  The ones I'm talking about have a metal mesh filter media that you remove and attempt to clean, then reinstall into a fancy looking outer shell.  They usually sell for hundreds of bucks and come with all sorts of bogus claims of increased power.  Any power increase is the result of less power being required to pump the oil through them, since they don't do a whole lot of filtering. 

Jerry

                  You are totally wrong when you say they dont do a whole lot of filtering were did you come up with this?
 

 
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buell95

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 06:43:01 PM »

Why?

Jerry

  Why not?
 The op wanted to no about filter options go to hdforums there are dozens of pages of info on the K&P
 Some guys have even sent out oil samples to prove there claims.
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doublerunner

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2013, 06:47:31 PM »

I saw the re-usable type filters. Personally not a fan of those.

I'll probably use the K&N because of the nut on it to make it easier to get off/on, available in black or chrome, and it is highly rated

Thanks for all the info folks
DR
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Zinister

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2013, 08:17:00 PM »

K&N or HD.

I use K&N because of the ease of removal. Have tried the Amsoil too but really I change it every 3000 miles so I'm not a good source for someone that goes longer. Why be cheap after what you spent on these bikes?
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hdaliaconis

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2013, 06:58:50 PM »

K&N or HD.

I use K&N because of the ease of removal. Have tried the Amsoil too but really I change it every 3000 miles so I'm not a good source for someone that goes longer. Why be cheap after what you spent on these bikes?

FYI a couple of years or so ago, American Iron/Donny Peterson did a series of articles on synthetic oil and filters.  Bottom line what ever brand of V Twin synthetic oil you use is better than fossil oil and the stock HD filter is just fine.  I personally like Mobil 1 but Amsoil is another good brand. 
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CVODON

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2013, 09:49:31 PM »

Amazon has the K&N's Filters and Mobil 1, No shipping, no tax. Just make sure it is handled by Amazon.com and not one of the sublet companies, .they charge freight, Amazon doesn't
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doublerunner

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2013, 03:46:37 PM »

I found this article very interesting and more in line with the way I think. I am concerned about a 5 micron filter clogging too early, which is why they have a bypass, which I am also not crazy about. The K&N is so highly rated and I like that it has much more paper media and better flow. I think will provide less restriction and keeps things running cooler and stronger. Of course if you change your oil often it may not really matter much

When referring to particle sizes in regards to oil filters, it is important to realize exactly how small the particles being discussed really are. Then, we can discuss the filtration effects of the filters in question in regards to engine life. There is a misconception when it comes to oil filters, that the smaller the micron rating the better the filter. Some companies rate their filter as a “5 micron” filter, which means the filter will catch particles microns in size with at least 50% efficiency. Let’s put a 5 micron particle in perspective. 1 micron is .001mm (or .00003937 inch), so 5 micron is .005mm (.00019685 inch). The tolerances in your engine will be no smaller than 2.5 thousandths of an inch (.0025”). So, 2.5 thousands of an inch, which is equal to a 63.5 micron particle. A 5 micron particle is smaller than a human red blood cell, and too small to see with the naked eye. So how can a particle that size cause damage to your engine?

Next, let’s consider the purpose of an oil filter bypass valve. A bypass valve opens when the inlet side of the filter gets too restrictive. This can happen when the engine is cold and the viscosity of the oil is high (due to the weight of the oil), but this primarily happens when the filter media gets too restrictive or clogged. This is done to keep catastrophic engine failure from occurring; dirty oil is better than no oil. The lower the pressure relief rating, the sooner the valve allows unfiltered oil to enter your system. The last factor that contributes to the bypass opening is the amount (surface area) of the filter media used in the filter. A filter that has a high surface area is going to hold more contaminant and promote good oil flow for a longer period of time, so the bypass will take longer to open.

If the filter you use is 95% efficient at 5 microns it is going to remove more contaminants than a filter that is 3% efficient at 5 microns. The question is, how long will it take for those filters to load up with contaminant and enter bypass? The answer is simple, the more efficient filter will load up sooner, but at what expense? Oil flow is necessary to lubricate rotating parts, prevent engine failure, and help keep the engine cooler, plus again dirty oil flow is better than starving the engine of oil completely (the theory behind the filter bypass). Clean oil is best for long engine life, and a filter that can promote clean oil flow consistently for a longer period of time is a key component of any healthy engine.

When you are talking about filtration, whether it be oil or air, there is a balancing act that has to be performed to ensure your engine gets the protection it needs while giving your engine the most flow possible. Unfortunately, when the focus is an oil filter that is catching extremely small particles at a high percentage, the tradeoff is flow rate. This put the consumer in a “Catch-22” situation. Do you use a filter with the most efficient media at the smallest particle rating, and have the bypass open letting unfiltered oil through the system? Or do you have a filter that does not filter as small a particle size, but filters more of the oil for a longer period of time? K&N filters are designed to give you the balance of oil flow and filtration. Of course, we would like to say we have the most efficient filter at the smallest micron range, but the fact is we are not going to sacrifice oil flow or the quality of filtration by having a high efficiency filter that operates in bypass mode for 80% percent of its life. I know for me personally it’s a simple decision, the small particle filtration does not mean anything to me since we are talking about particles I can’t see, especially if there is a remote possibility of unfiltered oil touching my bearing surfaces causing premature wear and eventual engine failure.

When you are comparing filters, to make the most informed decision possible, look at the following things (with the least amount of emphasis on micron rating): Filtration efficiency, Filter surface area, bypass setting.

The KN-171 filter has a nominal micron rating of 25, meaning it will capture 25 micron particles with at least 50% efficiency. The filtration efficiency of the KN-171 at 5 microns is 3%. The KN-171 also has 165 sq.in. of filter area partially the reason it flows 25% better than the OE, paired with a bypass that opens at 14psi. The Harley Davidson filter 95.8% efficient at 5 micron and 98.6% at 25 micron, it also has 63 sq.in. of media and a bypass that opens at 10psi. This means the Harley filter will run in bypass mode for a significant portion of its installed life, whereas the K&N will allow oil to flow through the filter for a longer period of time. In my personal opinion, this makes the K&N filter the clear choice.
Here is a side by side to the amount of media inside of a K&N filter and your typical OEM filter (I don't think it is Harley's current one but look cool)

Here is a side by side to the amount of media inside of a K&N filter and your typical OEM filter (I don't think it is Harley's current one but look cool)



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sadunbar

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2013, 05:00:58 PM »


What is the part number for the K&N filter and where is the best place to get one?
With the 4 bikes I go through oil and filters by the case.

SBB

I use KN-171C ...  I watch Ebay and wait for a good price to show up - usually purchase 4 to 6 at a time.  With patience, it's generally the best price.
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doublerunner

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2013, 05:36:00 PM »

Some good prices on amazon as well.
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cpm83

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Re: Oil Filter
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2013, 05:40:08 PM »

I have been using the K&N 171B & 171C for many years.  I`m simple...it`s the nut that I like:)
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