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[sadunbar]

I stand by my decision a few years ago to inspect my cam chest every 10K...  

The downside to a motor experiencing a lifter failure is often catastrophic.  And the downside to your wallet once the warranty is gone can be equally catastrophic!  

Hopefully the MOCO's next motor design will solve these failures.  I know I won't be buying another Harley until they do...  

[Retired rider]

@FlaHeatWave, thanks for the comments and I will check to see if they are going to look at the per your comment. As for the ESP inspector, I didn't meet the persour comment on but the Service manager said he very seldom has a problem with them. So Im gussing they must have a good relationship. Iteresting your comment on the cam failure, is alot of mention of follower failure causing it, gut interestion that its the rear exhaust. 

[phato1]

No parts have arrived yet hoping some time this week. Here is a picture of the failed cam. this is the rear exhaust. All the others looked perfect. What is up with that? 22,000. miles Im happy ESP is taking care of it but is it just bad workmanship?

That cam looks a lot like mine,  but mine only had 7400 miles on it   

[lilcoot]

While my Dealer is rebuilding my motor (see my thread "110 Needs a New Crank" here), My Tech said that while he has the primary off that he will pull the transmission seal and look at the tranny main bearing (I guess with a bore scope?) of the 6sp as they have seen issues with that.

The lifter failures that I have seen, have all been on the rear exhaust.

Over here on the "East Side" I have not heard of any "horror stories" of ESP refusing claims due to pipes & tune. You would think that ESP would like pipes & tune because, if done properly, it takes heat out of the motor, theoretically improving longevity.

Wow.  This is an interesting thread.  This week, I believe my rear cylinder exhaust valve has failed (haven't opened it up yet to assess the damage), and found another member here whose rear cylinder exhaust valve failed.  Is this really that common?  Is it a regional (SoCal) problem?

[FlaHeatWave]

With Harley's air cooled v-twin design, the rear exhaust valve is the hottest part of the motor(in theory).

[grc]

When the 110 was introduced in 2007 the rear exhaust valve was known to seize in the guide and actually pull the guide out of the head.  This was addressed somewhat on the Touring bikes in the so-called "upgrade" program when Harley replaced the heads and changed the guide design.  Strangely enough, they didn't replace them on the Softail/Dyna 110's.

The problem had more than one cause.  The excessively high temps of the rear cylinder head were the trigger for the valve and guide failures, as well as the head gasket failures from that period, but poor fit of the valves and guides from the factory also played a part. 

As seems to be true with most Harley bandaid "fixes", the early major valve failures have pretty much dried up, but you still see higher mileage failures.  In my opinion, Harley doesn't care about coming up with truly robust fixes that eliminate the problems, they do just enough to get the majority of bikes through the warranty period to reduce their costs.  It's a business driven more by bean counters than by engineers.  As long as the marketing folks can continue to convince people to buy the stuff, the bean counters will continue on their current path.  When the people no longer can be conned into buying substandard quality, or the warranty costs become burdensome, the power may shift more to the engineering side for awhile.  This tends to be the cycle I observed in the auto business over 35 years.  Most companies never could strike a good balance, they just shifted from one extreme to the other and then back again.

JMHO - Jerry

[lilcoot]

Jerry,

18 months ago,  my feelings toward HD could be summarized like this:  Love: 90%, Naivete: 9%, Hate: 1% mostly because of price.

Currently:  Love: 50%, Bewilderment/Betrayal 48%, Hate: 2%  because of $$$ cost.

OMG!  In a couple years, I'll be a grouchy old fart, too!  

[timo482]

i think a big issue with hd regarding reliability is that most bikes never get to 20,000 miles. the vast majority ride on 5 or 6 nice sunday afternoons per year. those buyers are very looks oriented and very price sensitive. so if hd can get the bike through the warranty its likely to go to a second hand owner before it gets many miles. and get chopped before 30,000 miles.

then there is the rest - guys who put 100k on a bike. when i was young i put about a 100k miles on a sportster [two engine rebuilds], after i had literally worn out a 2 cyl suzuki and a vespa scooter - and i mean wore them out. then i rode a 77 electra glide about a hundred thousand - one engine rebuild, rode a kaw 1000 and a gold wing - wore the gold wing out and found it could not be fixed and junked it. [and you think a hd costs to fix - the gold wing needed a piston - 2grand for parts in 85]

these days i ride about 7000 a summer - when i pull into the dealer lot and park it i have the oldest worn out looking bike there. the rest are 12's with 2000 miles on them. all the rubs make fun of it and tell me to get a new bike - morons..

what harley really *should* do is make a model/option for the high milers - it could cost 5000 more but have a warranty on the drive train 7 years 100000 miles - and they would probably sell 5 thousand a year, have it as a option.

to

[phato1]

i think a big issue with hd regarding reliability is that most bikes never get to 20,000 miles. the vast majority ride on 5 or 6 nice sunday afternoons per year. those buyers are very looks oriented and very price sensitive. so if hd can get the bike through the warranty its likely to go to a second hand owner before it gets many miles. and get chopped before 30,000 miles.

then there is the rest - guys who put 100k on a bike. when i was young i put about a 100k miles on a sportster [two engine rebuilds], after i had literally worn out a 2 cyl suzuki and a vespa scooter - and i mean wore them out. then i rode a 77 electra glide about a hundred thousand - one engine rebuild, rode a kaw 1000 and a gold wing - wore the gold wing out and found it could not be fixed and junked it. [and you think a hd costs to fix - the gold wing needed a piston - 2grand for parts in 85]

these days i ride about 7000 a summer - when i pull into the dealer lot and park it i have the oldest worn out looking bike there. the rest are 12's with 2000 miles on them. all the rubs make fun of it and tell me to get a new bike - morons..

what harley really *should* do is make a model/option for the high milers - it could cost 5000 more but have a warranty on the drive train 7 years 100000 miles - and they would probably sell 5 thousand a year, have it as a option.

to

For what we spend on these "top of the line" bikes we ride this should be standard on the CVO's,  and the drivetrain really should be more robust -IMHO

[grc]

Consider if you will how much a Harley Touring model costs (even the regular bikes, not just CVO's), then compare that price to the prices of the average small car these days.  The Harley provides little in the way of creature comforts, little in the way of rider protection both from the weather and from injuries, and little in the way of long term reliability.  On the other hand, even the less expensive cars these days offer air conditioning and other creature comforts, multiple airbags and other safety features, and on average will go well over 100k miles with little more than routine maintenance.

timo482, I can't agree with your idea about Harley charging another $5k to provide some of the reliability I can get standard in an automobile for less money.  Harley needs to fix their quality and reliability problems and stop relying on the folks who ride less than a couple thousand miles during the short warranty period to help reduce their warranty expense.  There is no way that a relatively simple product like a motorcycle should cost as much or more than a much more sophisticated automobile.  If Harley can't build a top quality modern vehicle for the prices they currently charge, perhaps they should find another business, or a better management group.

Jerry

[HDGearHead]

Consider if you will how much a Harley Touring model costs (even the regular bikes, not just CVO's), then compare that price to the prices of the average small car these days.  The Harley provides little in the way of creature comforts, little in the way of rider protection both from the weather and from injuries, and little in the way of long term reliability.  On the other hand, even the less expensive cars these days offer air conditioning and other creature comforts, multiple airbags and other safety features, and on average will go well over 100k miles with little more than routine maintenance.

timo482, I can't agree with your idea about Harley charging another $5k to provide some of the reliability I can get standard in an automobile for less money.  Harley needs to fix their quality and reliability problems and stop relying on the folks who ride less than a couple thousand miles during the short warranty period to help reduce their warranty expense.  There is no way that a relatively simple product like a motorcycle should cost as much or more than a much more sophisticated automobile.  If Harley can't build a top quality modern vehicle for the prices they currently charge, perhaps they should find another business, or a better management group.

Jerry

Amen to that!

[timo482]

well they do make one that has most of the modern features - they dont sell much in the us

the point is what folks want - we want it to look exactly like a pan head and last like a toyota and require no service. you talk about modern cars with the durability and features. the way you get that is water cooling, overhead cams, unit construction,

like a vrod - only more so. we wont buy them so they make new pan heads & we complain they dont last.

the whole point is that what they make is what sells & and that requires a push rod air cooled forked rod engine.

water cooled heads would go a long way to more durability and more power. also remember on a cvo most of the extra money goes into stuff you "see" like paint and chrome etc... almost none of that money goes inside the engine, probably 50 bux at the mfg level.

[twinotter]

 I have an opinion about the Harley reliability issues. If you want HD to start making "reliable" motorcycles, STOP buying the chit they offer. Almost any other brand of bike will outlast a HD, for considerably less $$. They have to make theirs reliable so customers will consider them against the HD.
With modern technology, there should be no earthly reason for a $35000.00 motorcycle to be as unrreliable as 1950 models.
The consumer is ultimately to blame here, imo, you keep buying this crap even knowing it will not last, will fry your gonads, and cook your ankles, compensators that don't compensate, except your wallet.  YET you still go out and spend twice what its worth to ride a HD.  Buy something else, and tell HD why you bought another brand, if enough of you do this, they'll spend the $$ to solve the issues. 
I ride an 01 Dyna, it will be my last Harley, I would not even consider a new HD with all the current issues. fwiw Buffalo

[Retired rider]

Well, I got the call yesterday that me bike is back in one piece . I plan to to go turn in my rental and pick her up this afternoon. Prety much it sounds like i got all new bottom end, Along with the crank, they replaced, cams, tappets, oil pump, tentioners, etc. I will know more when I get there but he said also the primary chain and tentioner. Not sure why. They indicated the compensater was fine so it didnt get replaced.

[Retired rider]

I picked up the bike and have been able to run a tank of gas through it now and everything seems to be fine. Even seems like it runs stronger than before the repair. BTW I miss understood them on the phone, the primary chain was not replaced. I was very happy to get it back though, all clean setting out front waiting and no charge for a 2013 Haritage Classic rental.
While reviewing the parts list and workorder when I got home, I noticed that a SE 255 Cam Kit was installed. Does anyone know if that is the stock cam kit for my 110 SE? If not maybe thats why it seems to run stronger?