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[RedEagle]

There has to be something I can do about this clutch pull.

I took a "Ride Like a Pro" class yesterday.  It was four hours long and my hand was dead from this clutch!
I bought this bike used and I know that the previous rider would burn the clutch I saw him do it (smoking), and I figure he did it a lot.  When I bought the bike I took it to the dealer and asked him to check it.  He said that it was OK, so I left it at that.  This is my first bike with a Hydraulic clutch but I thought it was supposed to be easier than a cable.
My Question is there anything I can do?
I am going to buy a couple of those spring grip exercisers..*S,  but what else can I check or do.
Thanks

[North Georgia Hawg]

I use the ClutchWIZ (http://ClutchWIZ.com) and a 480 lb clutch spring from AIM. We have measured the clutch pull on my bike at 9.8 lbs - far less than stock - and I can pull it with two fingers.

I discuss this in my mods thread starting on this page: http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=66236.465

Ken

[Master Guns]

There has to be something I can do about this clutch pull.

I took a "Ride Like a Pro" class yesterday.  It was four hours long and my hand was dead from this clutch!
I bought this bike used and I know that the previous rider would burn the clutch I saw him do it (smoking), and I figure he did it a lot.  When I bought the bike I took it to the dealer and asked him to check it.  He said that it was OK, so I left it at that.  This is my first bike with a Hydraulic clutch but I thought it was supposed to be easier than a cable.
My Question is there anything I can do?
I am going to buy a couple of those spring grip exercisers..*S,  but what else can I check or do.
Thanks

RedEagle

I know what you mean.  I rode mine in one parade and won't do it again.  There are several on this site who have changed their stock clutch out.  Hopefully some of them will respond to request for help.

[RayG]

Something is not right as the stock clutch has a very easy pull compared to the non hydraulic.  Since you witnessed the way he was abusing the clutch is there any chance the clutch is not stock.  Either way why not try contacting the company that sells the Clutch Wiz that was recommended.  It will take a long time to strengthen your grip with hand crushers, it will help but it is not the answer in my opinion. 

[Trapperdog]

The problem isn't just the pressure, it's where the friction zone is on a hydraulic clutch pull. Durring normal riding it's barley noticeable, but when struggling in the friction zone all day it can be tough on the hand. Competition motor officers perfer cable clutches as the lever can be adjusted so the friction zone is closer to the grip. It's much less taxing there than when the friction zone is out further. I have two bikes that have hydraulic clutches and practice cone courses quite often. I work with my hands so It's not much of a problem and ironically feel out of place when using a cable clutch bike.

[North Georgia Hawg]

The problem isn't just the pressure, it's where the friction zone is on a hydraulic clutch pull. Durring normal riding it's barley noticeable, but when struggling in the friction zone all day it can be tough on the hand. Competition motor officers perfer cable clutches as the lever can be adjusted so the friction zone is closer to the grip. It's much less taxing there than when the friction zone is out further. I have two bikes that have hydraulic clutches and practice cone courses quite often. I work with my hands so It's not much of a problem and ironically feel out of place when using a cable clutch bike.

Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any way to adjust where the friction zone is on a hydraulic clutch, like there is on a cable operated clutch. But using the ClutchWIZ makes it easier to pull the clutch lever, which mitigates the issue when on the bike for long periods.

[Ironhorse]

This is what I use:

http://www.aim-tamachi.com/home.php?cat=3

Able to ride friction zone fairly easily even with an arthritic left thumb.
Been using one for years even holding Ride Like A Pro classes with no problem.

Mark

[RedEagle]

I bought a hand exerciser last night my left hand is much weaker than my right I am no wuss but my hands are a med and I need to open the left all the way to grab the lever theres not much leverage out there.  More import I am looking into the clutch options.  I talked to John the Service Manager at Mile High Harley about Georgia Hawg's suggestion the  Clutch Wiz last night and asked him to look into it and see if he (Harley) will stand my by warranty with it installed he said he would, and I am going to have him look at Mark's suggestion the one with centrifugal weights also.
Both sound good to me. 
Thanks guys for your support and help

[Ironhorse]

Hey RedEagle,...

I'm going to be in Golden, CO in August. My eldest just got a scholarship to College of Mines. I'll be helping him move in.
Maybe we can get together for dinner or a beer.

Mark

[RedEagle]

Yes!  I look forward to that!  I'll take you over to Coors, Man does it taste good out of their tap!!
Congradulations Your son must be very smart!  That's a good school!

[sprinkman]

Used both on my Tri-Glide both work I like the clutch wiz best no moving parts.  moco is making one like the aim.  sprinkman

[kraut]

take the advice from Ironhorse - even the MoCo offers it as of lately. Really does help

[Mr. Wizard]

Maybe I can help out just a little bit.

Hydraulic clutches can be adjusted. This is done via bleeding the fluid just like the brakes. Hydraulic clutches can also become spongy like brakes. They need fluid replacement, air removal and bleeding when bands wear like brake shoes. Can you adjust the friction zone in a Hydraulic clutch? No, not like you can with cable adjusters.

Although I am the Wiz in ClutchWIZ I do not sell the product and try my best not to go against the advertising rules but maybe with Admin's permission I can talk about the dynamics of these devices. Admin... please remove if I cross the line.. Thx.

Any device like this moves the fulcrum point to the inner part of the clutch spring tines. "Give me a long enough fulcrum and I'll move the world". Unfortunately moving the fulcrum point devalues the clutch spring pressure by up to 15% while riding. The mine wasn't developed for aggressive riding. Was developed for me and the wife so we could continue to ride and hold a clutch. If I want to ride aggressively then I make other modifications to a stronger spring and clutch pac.

The other device, centrifugal type, does something similar but with a tiny fulcrum point/circle. Centrifugal weights are added to increase down force on the clutch basket during higher RPM's where the clutch lever pull is increased to the rider. I too have used these type of products but didn't like a few things... The noise it makes and the longevity of the fulcrum point. It wears down and moves the friction zone out to the end of the lever release. I'm not the only person to find this wear pattern and you have a hard time keeping up with the friction zone adjustment until you purchase another one.

With devices like the two above are installed on a cable bike you can play with the friction zone and get the lever to start the clutch grab closer or further away from the grip. To do this on a cable bike simply remember one rule when adjusting your cable clutch per the factory manual. To get the lever as close as possible to the grip do not turn the clutch pressure plate adjustment screw the 1/2 turn CCW. When you find the point where the lever just starts to pull away from the grip don't turn the adjustment screw at all. Lock it down there. If you like your clutch to grab further way then move the adjustment screw further CCW. IF.. the adjustment screw is turned too far CW then the clutch lever will not touch the grip and you will have a "dead zone" from the lever to the grip. To pull against a "dead zone" is like squeezing a rock and will hurt your hand.

Anyway... That's just a little bit. Hope I didn't offend the site policy.



-Wiz

[grc]

IMHO it's two different ways to achieve the same goal, with one caveat.  Adding just the ClutchWiz without also upgrading the spring will degrade the torque capacity of the clutch (it can slip under heavy load), so it's not quite as simple as it may seem.  And with the AIM device you will need to go the other way with the spring to maximize the lever effort reduction.  Also not quite as simple as it may seem.

For those with hand size or grip strength issues, one or the other is a good choice as long as you understand the limitations.

Jerry

[North Georgia Hawg]

IMHO it's two different ways to achieve the same goal, with one caveat.  Adding just the ClutchWiz without also upgrading the spring will degrade the torque capacity of the clutch (it can slip under heavy load), so it's not quite as simple as it may seem.  And with the AIM device you will need to go the other way with the spring to maximize the lever effort reduction.  Also not quite as simple as it may seem.

For those with hand size or grip strength issues, one or the other is a good choice as long as you understand the limitations.

Jerry

You're right, Jerry... there are always limitations! Someone needs to find a way around these pesky laws of physics!

I ran the AIM VP70T VPC for about 5000 miles, and experienced the rather quick wear down of the fulcrum points and subsequent reduction in its lever pull effort reduction effectiveness, as I've documented in my mods thread. Also, as I mentioned to Wiz until he was tired of hearing it, the rattling noise that the VPC made in my primary was driving me absolutely nuts.

I needled Wiz into letting me participate as a sort of beta tester for the ClutchWIZ during the time he was developing it. He found that a stronger clutch spring was needed, so I installed the 480 lb spring from AIM. But due to the fulcrum point placement of the ClutchWIZ to reduce the lever pull effort, even that strong spring wasn't preventing all clutch slippage on the Honey Badger when I really got on it.

So, I installed the extra plate kit from Energy One, and that fixed the slipping for good. So now I run the ClutchWIZ, the AIM 480 lb clutch spring, and the Energy One extra plate kit and I'm very happy.  As I said above, we have measured my clutch lever pull effort at 9.8 lbs - easy enough to pull with two fingers, and similar to the lever pull effort the VP70T provided when it was brand new.

Note that the AIM VP84T and VP92T are designed to handle progressively more power - but each provides lesser amounts of clutch lever pull effort reduction.

Ken