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[Steve Cole]

How are you mapping the entire rpm range?  Say, 5000/100kpa?  You are not doing it on the street with just a Vision.  The stock ECM will not allow it. Yes it will. When you use the PV's autotuning, it reduces the original map's spark advance by 4 degrees. It then raises the AFR to "closed loop" across the entire map. Now when the rider rides, there's a screen on the PV that shows the datalog in a graphic matrix by rpm and KPa. It's not necessary to read the individual cells however they change color when enough data has been collected for the PV to adjust the VE in that cell. As you gather enough data from riding, the data logger visually shows you that more of the map has been colored in to alert you that when you export the data you will have new VEs in that region of the map. Its very helpful and can usually be determined just by seeing how much of the map is colored in. Because the entire map is now closed loop and "protected" by the lower spark advance, the O2 sensors capable of providing data to the PV's autotuning algorithyms. When autotuning, I frequently (as in nearly every tuning run) will have new "tuned cells" upto 100KPa and 6000rpms.

You have just described the Vtune process step by step, logging the data with a real time chart that colors in the cells with enough data and it was released in early 2008 so this is just another copy, other than 2 things. TTS uses the laptop and does NOT retard timing by 4 degrees. I happen to be the person responsible for designing and developing that procedure so I know a few things about it and how and what the HD Delphi ECM does with it! The timing needs to be at the proper setting to get the proper burn rate from the fuel. By retarding the timing 4 degrees as a wild a$$ guess, provides an improper fuel burn and provides little to no protection at all. The factory O2 sensor will read whatever is in the exhaust and it does not care how it got there, right or wrong it gives a voltage reading to the ECM and the ECM adjust for it NOT the PV! Also if you run for too long at 14.6 at WOT you will burn a hole in a piston. So it is NOT safe to do this for too long and you are in no way shape or form "protected". If you have been lead to believe this is safe for prolonged operation someone is pulling your leg.

As for caring multiple calibrations that is just more advertising hype, the Delphi ECM is more than capable of handling light loads to heavy loads with one, two or three passengers, to towing a trailer, in hot or cold weather, ALL in one calibration. It even has provisions to handle that bad gas you talked about! All you need to do is KNOW how to properly adjust it and have a tool that allows the adjustments to be made. The engine and ECM have no idea what is there, you just need to calibrate for the various conditions all in one calibration, thats what it was designed to do. So if your having to make all these various calibrations to handle it you are doing something wrong or the tool your using is not capable of handling the proper adjustments for the ECM.

This is why some people pay a professional to do it but rest assured if you are willing to spend the time to learn how the engine and ECM operate it can be done with the proper tool set.

[HogBreath]

This is the most entertaing thread I never read.

Using abbreviations always makes one seem smarter. I got called into a large corporate location once to service a piece of equipment. I met with the CEO, GM and the OSHA man before I could start to work. When they decided I had been trained on safety procedures enough, they asked my first plan of action. I informed them I was gonna remove the BRT with the APW and check the MIS. They seemed totally impressed until they asked me what is BRT, APW, and MIS.

Big Round Thing
Aluminum Pipe Wrench
Mechanism InSide

[Jock]

This is the most entertaing thread I never read.

Using abbreviations always makes one seem smarter. I got called into a large corporate location once to service a piece of equipment. I met with the CEO, GM and the OSHA man before I could start to work. When they decided I had been trained on safety procedures enough, they asked my first plan of action. I informed them I was gonna remove the BRT with the APW and check the MIS. They seemed totally impressed until they asked me what is BRT, APW, and MIS.

Big Round Thing
Aluminum Pipe Wrench
Mechanism InSide

LOL   

[Fired00d]

This is the most entertaing thread I never read.

Using abbreviations always makes one seem smarter. I got called into a large corporate location once to service a piece of equipment. I met with the CEO, GM and the OSHA man before I could start to work. When they decided I had been trained on safety procedures enough, they asked my first plan of action. I informed them I was gonna remove the BRT with the APW and check the MIS. They seemed totally impressed until they asked me what is BRT, APW, and MIS.

Big Round Thing
Aluminum Pipe Wrench
Mechanism InSide

Sometimes the KISS principle is the best method. Otherwise it can get FUBAR.
 
 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman

[hrdtail78]

If you work extensively with a tuning device or tune extensively. You understand the questions I asked and abbreviation I used.  If you aren't up on things like kpa, TPS, TGS...... That's why there are pro tuners out there.  I don't mean to sound arrogant with that comment.  My buddies that are carpenters have their  acronyms. They still measure in fractions. I promised them I wont touch a claw hammer and they don't touch their bikes.  Some guys around here got my questions, and some didn't.

[Doc 1]

Heatwave .....is your real name Jim, Stroker Jim?

[BeeCVOBreakOut]

I recently picked up the Power Vision (PV) from Dynojet and added their auto tune pro kit with the wide bands. Before I installed the kit, I took my bike to the dyno to get baseline numbers and see what the air fuel ratios (AFR) looked like. I did have my Bassani exhaust system installed but everything else is stock.  I've knocked out a couple of data logging sessions dialing in fuel first then spark per Dynojet's suggestion and it definitely helped dial in my CVO Breakout. The PV was simple to install and the documentation is easy to understand. The auto tune basic is for light loads and fuel economy and auto tune pro is for power and performance (per dynojet documentation). I know a couple of guys who ran TTS and they didn't really like having to carry a laptop on their bike. One switched to PV and likes having the display on his handle bar for whatever reasons but you can remove it after you finish tuning the bike. I guess there are camps for all the different units but I chose the PV and I'm happy with it. I do believe that the auto tune pro should be part of the basic kit instead of as an add on but I've learned that some folks just want to get a decent tune while maintaining good fuel economy while others are chasing down max power and torque without regards to fuel economy.

I'd suggest that you go to dynojet's website and download the available documentation. They lay out everything in an easy to understand format and the information will answer a lot of questions you may have. If all else fails, give them a call...I spoke with Dan and Roy and played twenty questions with them when I was weighing out options and they were very helpful.

[sadunbar]

Heatwave .....is your real name Jim, Stroker Jim?

I think your refering to site member strokerjlk...

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=14697

[Charlie]

This is the most entertaing thread I never read.

Using abbreviations always makes one seem smarter. I got called into a large corporate location once to service a piece of equipment. I met with the CEO, GM and the OSHA man before I could start to work. When they decided I had been trained on safety procedures enough, they asked my first plan of action. I informed them I was gonna remove the BRT with the APW and check the MIS. They seemed totally impressed until they asked me what is BRT, APW, and MIS.

Big Round Thing
Aluminum Pipe Wrench
Mechanism InSide

Me too! best thread ever 

[Buckeye_Tuning]

Heatwave .....is your real name Jim, Stroker Jim?

 

[Heatwave]

You have just described the Vtune process step by step, logging the data with a real time chart that colors in the cells with enough data and it was released in early 2008 so this is just another copy, other than 2 things. The difference is that with the PV on the handlebar, I can see the cells fill in while I'm riding. With TTS you won't know if you filled in the cells until you get home and look at the laptop that was strapped to your bike during the datalogging. By using realtime data on the PV I can see if I need to do more datalogging at low rpms or low load or higher rpms and higher loads. This real-time approach makes for more "complete" datalogging. TTS uses the laptop and does NOT retard timing by 4 degrees. I happen to be the person responsible for designing and developing that procedure so I know a few things about it and how and what the HD Delphi ECM does with it! Since you designed this methodology, why isn't it used with your own TTS V-tuning? The timing needs to be at the proper setting to get the proper burn rate from the fuel. By retarding the timing 4 degrees as a wild a$$ guess, provides an improper fuel burn and provides little to no protection at all. The factory O2 sensor will read whatever is in the exhaust and it does not care how it got there, right or wrong it gives a voltage reading to the ECM and the ECM adjust for it NOT the PV! Also if you run for too long at 14.6 at WOT you will burn a hole in a piston. So it is NOT safe to do this for too long and you are in no way shape or form "protected". If you have been lead to believe this is safe for prolonged operation someone is pulling your leg. Agreed. I've referenced several times in this thread that 20 mins or so is plenty for autotuning. It's better to do multiple 20 min datalogs than it is to do a single 60 min datalog for the very reason you stated. Which is exactly what's recommended by DynoJet.

As for caring multiple calibrations that is just more advertising hype, the Delphi ECM is more than capable of handling light loads to heavy loads with one, two or three passengers, to towing a trailer, in hot or cold weather, ALL in one calibration. It even has provisions to handle that bad gas you talked about! All you need to do is KNOW how to properly adjust it and have a tool that allows the adjustments to be made. The engine and ECM have no idea what is there, you just need to calibrate for the various conditions all in one calibration, thats what it was designed to do. So if your having to make all these various calibrations to handle it you are doing something wrong or the tool your using is not capable of handling the proper adjustments for the ECM. It may be hype to you but to me it's been a very nice advantage when going from a solo ride to a 2up ride. Of course the ECM can handle both, but that doesn't mean the map is optimized for both situations. The VEs after autotuning are significantly different when autotuning with a solo rider and autotuning 2-up and a full load. That would be like suggesting the map for a CVO Breakout is suitable for a CVO Ultra just because they have the same engine (B vs A engine but you get my point). The weight difference alone will result in a different map. Same deal between a solo CVO Ultra and a 2up Ultra loaded with luggage...only the weight difference is more dramatic! Why use a compromise map when you can have a better matched map for your situation right on the bike? There's certainly no downside in having multiple maps for multiple situations. Why have the engine suck out timing using the knock sensor when you can have a properly built map to better manage 89 octane instead of 93 octane. For me, it's a definitely benefit of the PV to have a small library of optimized maps that I can download from the saddle (while stopped) any time the need arises.

This is why some people pay a professional to do it but rest assured if you are willing to spend the time to learn how the engine and ECM operate it can be done with the proper tool set.

Heatwave .....is your real name Jim, Stroker Jim? No

[Hog95023]

I am using a pc v in my stage 1 but switching to a tts with my 124.

[hrdtail78]

C'mon Doc. I think heatwave has a better understanding.   He has too.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Makes sense why I've never heard of it.  Beyond frustrated at this point.  Just wanted a simple choice

I have used a few of the others in the Past, however since 09 TTS is all that has been used on bike in my home.

TTS was on the 09 CVO Road Glide
TTS is on my 12 CVO road glide
TTS is on my 13 CVO Road Glide.

TTS was on my Wifes 11 Street Glide
TTS is on my wifes 13 Street Glide

Why TTS, Steve George of Fullsac recommended it.  Had a map to mach his head pipe an baffles I was buying.
Why TTS again, Doc a well respected tuner on here recommended it.

Also have got great support from Steve at Fullsac, Doc and Steve Cole.

My local dealer does not prefer TTS, they obviously like their product.  However its never prevented them from doing anything on my bikes.  They also do have one Mechanic who can use the TTS.

TTS works great with Steve Coles base maps or Steve Georges base maps for simple exhaust changes, or even common cam changes to go with it.

TTS works great when you use a good tuner like Doc for a highly modified motor with different pistons, cams, compression, throttle bodies and injectors. 

[Steve Cole]

Heatwave

It is perfectly clear you do not KNOW and understand how the HD Delphi system, TTS  Mastertune unit or the SESPT work. For that matter you have a poor understanding of how the PV works as well. Until you do it would be best for you to refrain from trying to mislead people or at least say it is your understanding instead of trying to say things are FACTS. You have a problem with people saying you are wrong and you seem to not want to learn for whatever reason. To me you have an agenda other than helping the OP. If you want to LEARN the basics you must learn the HD Delphi system and how the engine operates with it. If you would like to learn some basics, start another thread and open your mind. There are plenty of people who really do know here and I am sure they would be willing to give you a little help in another thread, if and only if your really wanting to learn.

As everyone has said this is just turn into a big joke at the expense of what the OP was trying to learn.