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[Charlie]

Heatwave

It is perfectly clear you do not KNOW and understand how the HD Delphi system, TTS  Mastertune unit or the SESPT work. For that matter you have a poor understanding of how the PV works as well. Until you do it would be best for you to refrain from trying to mislead people or at least say it is your understanding instead of trying to say things are FACTS. You have a problem with people saying you are wrong and you seem to not want to learn for whatever reason. To me you have an agenda other than helping the OP. If you want to LEARN the basics you must learn the HD Delphi system and how the engine operates with it. If you would like to learn some basics, start another thread and open your mind. There are plenty of people who really do know here and I am sure they would be willing to give you a little help in another thread, if and only if your really wanting to learn.

As everyone has said this is just turn into a big joke at the expense of what the OP was trying to learn.

Thats gota hurt 

[hrdtail78]

There's a lot of good info in this thread. Like most thing you find on the Internet and forums. A lot of BS needs waded through but the info is there.

[IRISHSE]

Heatwave

It is perfectly clear you do not KNOW and understand how the HD Delphi system, TTS  Mastertune unit or the SESPT work. For that matter you have a poor understanding of how the PV works as well. Until you do it would be best for you to refrain from trying to mislead people or at least say it is your understanding instead of trying to say things are FACTS. You have a problem with people saying you are wrong and you seem to not want to learn for whatever reason. To me you have an agenda other than helping the OP. If you want to LEARN the basics you must learn the HD Delphi system and how the engine operates with it. If you would like to learn some basics, start another thread and open your mind. There are plenty of people who really do know here and I am sure they would be willing to give you a little help in another thread, if and only if your really wanting to learn.

As everyone has said this is just turn into a big joke at the expense of what the OP was trying to learn.

I couldn't agree more and am now more confused and turned off than I was before I started this thread.  I already knew about most of the tuners talked about and basically asked a simple question in the beginning and was going to sort through each persons preference.

I don't want to have to dyno tune because then that requires a tech that uses the tuner I purchased.  If all these techs have dyno tuned and gotten these numbers on real world experience I should be able to order a tuner from said tech with the perimeters already installed and just flash or install.  Simple.

I've already checked with people locally that work on bikes and one suggested the Thundermax which didn't get a great response and the others suggested the SERT or the PV which was my local Harley dealer and I could tell he was pushing what they sell. 

So I'll ask my question again.  Is there a tuner out there that can be setup to adjust for the lean conditions Harley puts in for the EPA regs and removing the CAT from the stock headpipe with possible expansion in the future?  Nothing more nothing less.  Simply put I want to optimize the stock bike and thats it.

[grc]

So what we can take away from all this hot air is that we still have some folks who believe all the propaganda they read in the advertising for various products and spout it back as gospel, rather than actually learn how various engine management systems really work.  My "favorite" for misleading claims and general BS has been Zipper's and T-Max for several years now, but obviously other companies have decided if T-Max can get away with BS and make a ton of money blowing the "auto tune" smoke up people's asses, why not do the same thing and get in on the gravy train.  Thus we get products like the Cobra, the short lived EMS from RevPerf, and the misleading stuff from the folks with the otherwise capable PV.  And of course you have to throw in the stuff from V&H with their Fuel Pak along with the other similar add-on box "tuners" sold by the pipe companies.

As for the OP and his quest for a "simple" answer, maybe now you understand why some of us old timers around here cringe when people start these threads asking for simple answers to things like "what's the best pipe", or "what's the best tuner".  There are too many variables involved to be able to expect a "simple" and direct answer to those sorts of questions, but every time someone asks these questions all the folks with a personal agenda or "knowledge" gained from reading advertising crawl out of the woodwork and turn the thread into something about them and the OP is totally forgotten.  If you want to see for yourself what I mean, do a site search for "best tuner" or similar topics and read some of the many threads that already exist.  Lay in a good stock of snacks and drinks first, because you'll be tied up for a long long time reading basically the same sorts of things that you can find in this thread.  When your eyes start to cross and your butt feels like you've been on a four hundred mile ride, take a break and then do an honest evaluation of what you really want to achieve.  If all you want is to tweak your stock tune to improve driveability, you don't need the $900 and up solutions, no matter what some of these guys try to tell you.  But be honest with yourself.  If you are the type to never be satisfied and you constantly mess with stuff, you may want to just assume you will make further changes to the bike in the future and in that case it would make financial sense to buy the full featured solution up front.  Garages and basements all across this land are littered with the cheaper "simple" solutions that many of us tried first and then found to be lacking for various reasons.  I'd love to have the money wasted in just one single year by the Harley crowd on such products.  I wouldn't need to buy lotto tickets anymore, because I'd already be rich.

Jerry

[Steve Cole]

IRISHSE

Are you able and willing to spend some of your time to learn and do it yourself?

Let's start with what you asked for based on the parts you are going to choose. First off you want to remove the Cat. How? New headpipe or gut the stock one? Each answer to these questions will get you closer to the answer your looking for as just the questions I have asked will need a different response.

If you are not able too or do not want to spend the time I would buy a headpipe and tune from Fullsac as many others here have done. It's a well proven package if that is the route you want to go.

[grc]

"Is there a tuner out there that can be setup to adjust for the lean conditions Harley puts in for the EPA regs and removing the CAT from the stock headpipe with possible expansion in the future?"

OK, you must have hit the post button a split second before I did.  

To answer your question, which you have changed a bit from your original btw, yes there are systems that will do what you want.  They have already been discussed to some extent in this thread.  And no, none of them are automatic.

If you want the best solution that allows for future changes, I'd suggest one of the systems that flashes a new calibration to the stock ECM, as opposed to a piggyback device like the PCV or the stuff the exhaust companies promote.  Now since you don't want to mess with a dyno tune, at least initially, you need to research which of the options has canned maps you can just download to your bike that will match the changes you made to the exhaust system.  I'm not aware of any maps from H-D for the SEPST that are for a gutted catalyst, but you could ask I suppose.  TTS offers such maps, either themselves or through Fullsac.  There are many people on this site running catless pipes and a TTS with a canned map from Fullsac, and almost without exception they report being very happy with the results.  And this system definitely has capability for future modifications.  As for the Power Vision, I assume they have a library of canned maps just like they did and do for the older style Power Commanders.  Go to their site and see what's available.

There will always be a tendency for people on forums to escalate responses to what initially seemed like a simple question.  It's human nature, and it's been going on for a lot longer than this site has been around.  Kind of like the arguments some of us had back in the 60's about which carbs or cams were best in a small block Chevy, or which shocks, etc., except these days we do the arguing electronically.  As long as you have a decent BS detector and can sort through the obvious crap, you should be fine.

Jerry

[Steve Cole]

Kind of like the arguments some of us had back in the 60's about which carbs or cams were best in a small block Chevy, or which shocks, etc.,

Jerry

Jerry

I resemble that remark and it wasn't all that long ago ................... was it

[grc]

Jerry

I resemble that remark and it wasn't all that long ago ................... was it

    It seems like it was just yesterday, at least until all the aches and pains remind me how old I've become.  It's funny how our minds seem to be able to fool us like that.

Jerry

[Midnight Rider]

   It seems like it was just yesterday, at least until all the aches and pains remind me how old I've become.  It's funny how our minds seem to be able to fool us like that.

Jerry

It sure was fun playing around with those 283/327 motors though.  Used to live at the Dragstrip in my late teens, helping my buddy with his E-Gas Anglia.  Before that it was a '57 Chevy with a Tunnel Ram, if you remember those things.

The Anglia was a blast though.  It was this model, but of course was not blown, and the interior consisted of a race seat, sheet metal, and a Hurst Shifter...

[Steve Cole]

Funny thing is I still have a '23 model T with a 700 Hp 302 small block and a carb on it. Way too much engine in way to light of a car but it sure is fun to get out in the good weather for a quick blast. Thought about putting FI on it but it just wouldn't look right to me with FI on it. BTY it wasn't all that long ago I keep telling myself

[grc]

The entire argument about the short block Chevy's eventually became moot, btw.  After college I went to work for the Blue Oval foks, and one of the first things they taught me was it didn't matter what carb or cam you put in that Chevy, the Ford would smoke it like an Oscar Meyer weiner.

Jerry 

[SBB]

The entire argument about the short block Chevy's eventually became moot, btw.  After college I went to work for the Blue Oval foks, and one of the first things they taught me was it didn't matter what carb or cam you put in that Chevy, the Ford would smoke it like an Oscar Meyer weiner.

Jerry  

O boy!
This will be fun.
That Jerry knows how to stir the chit.

 

SBB

[hrdtail78]

If we are throwing hats in.  I had a 37 Plymouth with a 360 high output XB heads. Working on a 40 Ford coupe.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

my 62 chevy

Just a little SBC engine  Dart little M block a few things here and there 592 HP at the crank  both stages on line 902 all in... Runs very well for a old girl

[hrdtail78]

Tying to come up with a witty, smart ass comment about the beautiful model..... For once, I'm struck.