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[russelst]

Hi,

So I'm looking for some tweaks to the 110 that:
- don't void the moco warranty
- don't crush my mpg
- don't put out more heat (and preferably less)

I've got a 2013 RK CVO. 

Suggestions?

Tx

Steve

[Hog95023]

Hi,

So I'm picking up my first Harley (though not my first bike) Saturday June 1st. so bought a new 2013 CVO Road King in red from Patriot HD.  The CVO RK is the first Harley where the looks really resonated for me, plus there's no question that it can pack on the miles.  

In the 'fix it before you ride it' category, I've added/changed:
- Put usual RK wind screen on it
- Added highway pegs
- Added hammock seat
- Stage 1 exhaust
- New cams
- Dyno-tune (we're still debating which computer add-on)
- relocated turn signals and added aux LED lights
- luggage rack

I'm probably going to add some saddlebag protector bars

My biggest worry with the Harley's has always been the engine power, but between the SC 110, and fixing how the EPA has nerfed it, shouldn't be a problem.  I really hope we've seen the last of the engine problems with the 2013, but no way to tell without putting on the miles and finding out what's over the horizon.

I think you have a plan worked out

[grc]

If you've changed cams and had it tuned, you have technically voided the powertrain and emissions system portion of the warranty already. 

Jerry

[russelst]

Really?  I'd explicitly asked for mod's that don't void the warranty for the first turn of the crank.  I thought the cam was borderline with the transmission warranty, but nothing altered the engine warranty as long as I stayed with the HD stage kits (again, not first bike, but first moco bike).  If I'd gone Stage 3 out of the gate, I knew I'd be off the reservation, but didn't think I was doing so with a stage 1.  Am I wrong?

Tx

Steve

[Hog95023]

Really?  I'd explicitly asked for mod's that don't void the warranty for the first turn of the crank.  I thought the cam was borderline with the transmission warranty, but nothing altered the engine warranty as long as I stayed with the HD stage kits (again, not first bike, but first moco bike).  If I'd gone Stage 3 out of the gate, I knew I'd be off the reservation, but didn't think I was doing so with a stage 1.  Am I wrong?

Tx

Steve

I/we may be wrong as I recall something to the effect that any mods done at time of purchase prior to pickup are covered under your warranty. At least thats what I was told by the dealer I bought my bike at. Also a friend bought an ultra limited and was told he had 60 days for the mods to be covered under warranty. I don't think the warranty coverage is from HD mother ship but rather te dealer that did the work. You may ask tem that.  

I asked them what happens when I'm on hwy 40 in oklahoma and I have an issue. Dealer said they call the nearest dealer and work it out. (Sure they do). Cams is a motor mod. Trans probably wont be an issue but what about the compensator or clutc, should it crap the bed. Does the tuning device you plan on using indicate it is for street use?

[Hog95023]

If you put a tune in the bike and the tune is lean causing discoloration to the pipes and excessive heat do you think Harley would or should warranty the pipes? That's the way they will look at things. What did you have done and what can they get out of fixing

[SteveFLHTK]

Adding a cam is technically beyond a stage 1 and is considered a stage 2 upgrade.  Everything depends on the servicing Dealer.  If they are asses, they can technically void your warranty for several of the things you've done, depending on the work needed.  The cam, the pipes, and the tuner all can void it, again, depending on the Dealership.

[russelst]

I'm pushing for a street legal tune (and tuner). The cam upgrade is a valid point.  I'm mostly worried about the warranty in the first couple of thousand miles, so I'm probably safe with the same dealer that did the changes.  Interesting to know though, I thought I was pretty clear cut safe and I guess I'm not. At least someone is going to be able to fix it in the middle of nowhere, so it just comes down to who pays.  The one thing that I haven't done that I see a lot of people do is the Fullsac head pipes.  Is that a no brainer upgrade?

Tx

Steve

[grc]

Really?  I'd explicitly asked for mod's that don't void the warranty for the first turn of the crank.  I thought the cam was borderline with the transmission warranty, but nothing altered the engine warranty as long as I stayed with the HD stage kits (again, not first bike, but first moco bike).  If I'd gone Stage 3 out of the gate, I knew I'd be off the reservation, but didn't think I was doing so with a stage 1.  Am I wrong?

Tx

Steve

Who did you ask Steve, the dealership that sold you the modifications?  I guess this is your first lesson in Harley dealership BS.

Stage 1 is just exhaust and possibly air cleaner, and depending on the package it can be street legal and not affect the factory warranty (factory stage 1 kit with street legal download for the ECM).  Stage 2 includes things like cams, and it definitely is not street legal and can be grounds for denying warranty coverage if you have a failure that could be tied to your modifications.  And btw, what SteveFLHTK said about it depending on the dealer isn't exactly correct.  The factory warranty is from H-D corporate, not the franchised dealer.  Dealers have no legal standing to modify the terms of the factory warranty. 

Anyhow, what's done is done.  I do think if it were me I'd go by that dealership and have a sit down with the dealer principle, and let him know I expect him to stand behind what his people conned me into doing.  In other words, I'd want something in writing from him stating he would cover any failures if Harley declined to do so.

Btw, you didn't mention if you bought the ESP coverage (often erroneously called an extended warranty).  If you did, those folks are tougher than Harley when it comes to denying coverage on modified bikes.  So if you did buy it, that should also be part of your discussion with that dealer.

Hopefully this will all be a non-issue and you won't have any problems that would require warranty service on the powertrain.  But it's best to get it all sorted out now, while the facts are fresh and obvious.

Jerry

[russelst]

As my dad and granddad said, all great lies start with 'and my recruiter told me'.  Thank you for all the helpful advice.

Tx

Steve

[grc]

I/we may be wrong as I recall something to the effect that any mods done at time of purchase prior to pickup are covered under your warranty. At least thats what I was told by the dealer I bought my bike at. Also a friend bought an ultra limited and was told he had 60 days for the mods to be covered under warranty. I don't think the warranty coverage is from HD mother ship but rather te dealer that did the work. You may ask tem that.  

I asked them what happens when I'm on hwy 40 in oklahoma and I have an issue. Dealer said they call the nearest dealer and work it out. (Sure they do). Cams is a motor mod. Trans probably wont be an issue but what about the compensator or clutc, should it crap the bed. Does the tuning device you plan on using indicate it is for street use?

That's a different situation.   If you add certain types of accessories at the time of purchase, those can be given two year factory warranty coverage rather than the regular parts and accessory warranty anyone gets when they buy the stuff at the parts counter.  But it has nothing to do with performance mods, race tuners, cams, or similar items.  It's more for things like adding a windshield on a bike that doesn't come with one, or luggage racks, etc.

As I told Steve, if you're counting on a dealer to do the right thing, you'd better get it in writing.  The typical dealership will make all sorts of verbal promises when they are selling you the illegal mods, since they know those are basically unenforceable promises.  Insist on something in writing from the dealer principle or other legal representative of the dealership.  Otherwise, you've got nothing.

Jerry

[timo482]

ya its a bummer but there are almost no parts you can put on a 110 engine that wont void the engine warranty.

the way to tell is look at the box the part comes in - if it has crossed flags its not emissions legal and hd does not warranty the engine after you install the part.

there are a very few aftermarket mufflers that have the epa stamp on them and are legal, but the whole list is probably one hands worth. the hd 110 engine comes stage one from the factory, it already has the high flow air cleaner, it already has the 255 cam, it already has the ecm program to use them. after that its all 100% race only parts.

i hear this so often i swear its a "lets sell him a cam and race tuner" "then the warranty ends when it rolls out the door."

to

[FLSTFI Dave]

I'm pushing for a street legal tune (and tuner). The cam upgrade is a valid point.  I'm mostly worried about the warranty in the first couple of thousand miles, so I'm probably safe with the same dealer that did the changes.  Interesting to know though, I thought I was pretty clear cut safe and I guess I'm not. At least someone is going to be able to fix it in the middle of nowhere, so it just comes down to who pays.  The one thing that I haven't done that I see a lot of people do is the Fullsac head pipes.  Is that a no brainer upgrade?

Tx

Steve

For me it sure is a no brainer to do the Fullsac head pipe.  Did it on my 09 CVO, have it on my 12 CVO and my 13 CVO King, put it on the day I picked the King up.  Its also on my wife's 13 Street glide.

Gets rid of the cat, and lowers the heat on the right foot, leg.

Half the problem with these bikes is the Street legal (EPA) tune.  Most tuners will richen it up a bit which also lowers engine heat.

I am sure the warranty is long gone on my CVO King.  My dealer would take care of it, if not caused by what has been done, however I doubt any other dealer would.

Mine has lots more than just the HD 259E cams, stuff like 10.5 pistons, bigger injectors, bigger throttle body, head work and so on.

[SteveFLHTK]

Stage 1 is just exhaust and possibly air cleaner, and depending on the package it can be street legal and not affect the factory warranty (factory stage 1 kit with street legal download for the ECM).  Stage 2 includes things like cams, and it definitely is not street legal and can be grounds for denying warranty coverage if you have a failure that could be tied to your modifications.  And btw, what SteveFLHTK said about it depending on the dealer isn't exactly correct.  The factory warranty is from H-D corporate, not the franchised dealer.  Dealers have no legal standing to modify the terms of the factory warranty. 



Jerry

Lemme 'splain what I meant a bit better.  You are correct an individual dealer cannot modify the terms of the warranty.  What they can, however, do is report something they think might void the warranty.  A home dealership that did the warranty is unlikely to do so.  Another dealership might.  A perfect example is a trailer hitch.  It explicitly voides the ESP, yet some dealers do work with one on, some won't.

[grc]

Lemme 'splain what I meant a bit better.  You are correct an individual dealer cannot modify the terms of the warranty.  What they can, however, do is report something they think might void the warranty.  A home dealership that did the warranty is unlikely to do so.  Another dealership might.  A perfect example is a trailer hitch.  It explicitly voides the ESP, yet some dealers do work with one on, some won't.

I agree Steve, different dealers handle repairs on modified bikes differently.  Some don't care and even try to run obviously heavily modified bikes through under warranty.  But here's the part that those dealers can't control.  More and more these days both Harley and the ESP company require prior approval before a dealer does certain work.  That entails having a representative stop by the dealership and actually inspect the bike prior to authorizing warranty or ESP repairs.  In such a case, the dealer is chit out of luck if he planned to submit a fraudulent claim, and unless that dealer steps up and covers it himself for the customer he promised he'd take care of, the customer is also chit out of luck.  That's why I say get it in writing from the dealer principle or legal representative of the dealership.

The factory warranty or the ESP are legal contracts.  Verbal promises from dealerships are not enforceable, contracts are.  That's the point I'm trying to make.

Jerry