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[phato1]

I thought HD had a fancy testing facility out in the desert where they did some longevity testing ...... until my CUSE6 needed a cam chest rebuild at 7400 miles due to a bad lifter.

 I think they hired an actuary to run the numbers and figured that most riders won't get enough miles on the bike to experience failures during the factory warranty period. I'm pretty sure that repairs covered by ESP coverage don't effect HD's costs because the ESP is not a Harley program.

[grc]

I thought HD had a fancy testing facility out in the desert where they did some longevity testing ...... until my CUSE6 needed a cam chest rebuild at 7400 miles due to a bad lifter.

 I think they hired an actuary to run the numbers and figured that most riders won't get enough miles on the bike to experience failures during the factory warranty period. I'm pretty sure that repairs covered by ESP coverage don't effect HD's costs because the ESP is not a Harley program.

I think you might find that Harley actually makes money on the ESP.  They get paid to "endorse" the program, and the dealers make a nice commission on the sale of each policy.  Then the MoCo makes money selling all those parts used in the repairs, and the dealers make money on the labor.  The people paying for all of this are the poor slobs who bought the ESP's, not Harley or the dealers.  The ESP is basically similar to an insurance policy.  The policy holders pay enough to cover all claims plus enough to provide the insurance company with a very healthy profit.

Jerry

[phato1]

I think you might find that Harley actually makes money on the ESP.  They get paid to "endorse" the program, and the dealers make a nice commission on the sale of each policy.  Then the MoCo makes money selling all those parts used in the repairs, and the dealers make money on the labor.  The people paying for all of this are the poor slobs who bought the ESP's, not Harley or the dealers.  The ESP is basically similar to an insurance policy.  The policy holders pay enough to cover all claims plus enough to provide the insurance company with a very healthy profit.

Jerry

That's a better explanation of what I meant -- the cost of the parts and labor on the ESP repairs are not coming out of HD's bottom line as a "warranty" repair, they are getting paid for the parts and labor to diagnose/repair the failures by the ESP company - and that's in addition to being compensated for "endorsing" the plan. In a majority of cases ESP's pay off for everyone 'cept the person who bought the plan.

* disclaimer * I have an ESP, bought it when my lifter/tappet went bad because I think it made economic sense for me since my 2 year factory warranty was expiring (actually expired the day after the failure was verified) and I thought of it as paying for the cam replacement and getting 5 years of ESP free. Might need it might not - I think probably will.

[Montanakid]

I've seen to have had a intermittant TAP at 3000 to 35000 rpm but seems to have been there since day 1.I had dealer where I bought it install I think it was SE 259 cams and pistons before I took delivery. At times it makes me nervous but seems to have been consistant from day one and after reading here thinking it was normal. I'm coming up on 24000 miles and hope to do Sturgis this summer and check cam bearings and lifters upon returning.

[cliffy]

A couple of days ago just as I was returning from a 2000 mile European trip (bike ran perfectly during trip) when the bike suddenly developed a tapping and exhaust blowing noise. It seemed to come from the push rod side of the barrels. The noise did not seem to be in tune with engine speed and there was no noticeable performance drop. I took the bike to the local dealer who said there had been a component failure and that engine needed to be stripped. Unfortunately for me the dealer is busy at the moment so it probably won't be stripped down until the end of June. By the time they've stripped, diagnosed problem, sourced any required parts and rebuilt engine they think I'll probably be without the bike until sometime in August, which is basically the whole of the summer in the UK.

The bike, 2011 CVO Softail with 23K miles, is a month out of warranty so it might also be an expensive repair. To the dealers credit, as they know the full history of the bike, they are putting in a claim to the MoCo for a warranty repair.

I'll let you know what the problem is as soon as I hear, though to me it sounds like a similar problem to others in this posting.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Yep,
Once that lifter roller lets loose, from what we suspect incorrect lifter preload causing them to be "hammered", then it is all over, except the crying, then.
Makes a fugly mess.
Scott

[sadunbar]

Probably a loose clamp on one of your exhaust shields or something simple.

Maybe...  But I wouldn't bet on it...

[HD Street Performance]

I was never comfortable playing the dealer warranty game when my bikes were newer. Funny thing I actually bought a total wreck, 02 FLHR, that I looked up in the computer and found was still on ESP 6 months remaining, LOL. I fixed the bike but never used the ESP just couldn't get over the ethics to be honest. This bike had a shifted crank. I paid for parts and fixed it.
At the dealer where I was employed they always had the "queue" for service, in other words..
Dealers buddies and real squeaky wheels top, regular customers second, warranty third. At the end of the day the same parts that didn't last are the ones that are put back on the motorcycle and in the case of an early Timken twin cam (88" for example) brought in for a "rebuilt" motor they will get a roller bearing exchange motor with a cold forged crank, junk lifters, and a little better breathing head and tensioner issues fixed with new hydra-chain. Not sure how to evaluate that upgrade or not.?
Bottom line for me, and I do my own work so this is not perfect for everybody, no dealer service warranty or otherwise unless they have to do dealer proprietary work using Digital Tech which has only been once IME. I use aftermarket or genuine parts as I deem appropriate. I am not a Harley basher and do use and recommend their parts, reality is my customers buy more from them as I give them the information what to buy. I have been cut off from ordering any quantities. Interesting business model they have for sure.

[phato1]

I've seen to have had a intermittant TAP at 3000 to 35000 rpm but seems to have been there since day 1.I had dealer where I bought it install I think it was SE 259 cams and pistons before I took delivery. At times it makes me nervous but seems to have been consistant from day one and after reading here thinking it was normal. I'm coming up on 24000 miles and hope to do Sturgis this summer and check cam bearings and lifters upon returning.

Mine was making a similar sound, only lower in the RPM range. Thought it was "normal" for the 110 UNTIL I removed the lifters and pushrods to install some S&S components, that's when I found out that the noise it had been making since I took delivery WASN'T normal at all.....

You might want to investigate the noise further - at least with a stethoscope to try and isolate the source - or if you have adjustable pushrods it would be easy enough to check the lifers for any abnormal wear.

[Montanakid]

Mine was making a similar sound, only lower in the RPM range. Thought it was "normal" for the 110 UNTIL I removed the lifters and pushrods to install some S&S components, that's when I found out that the noise it had been making since I took delivery WASN'T normal at all.....

You might want to investigate the noise further - at least with a stethoscope to try and isolate the source - or if you have adjustable pushrods it would be easy enough to check the lifers for any abnormal wear.

I plan on looking at it when I get the 25k service as this will coincide with the time frame to leave for Sturgis. Thanks for the info.

[grc]

I plan on looking at it when I get the 25k service as this will coincide with the time frame to leave for Sturgis. Thanks for the info.

You may want to rethink that.  If you wait until right before you plan to leave, and you have some internal damage, you may be leaving that bike in the shop for awhile.

Jerry

[sadunbar]

You may want to rethink that.  If you wait until right before you plan to leave, and you have some internal damage, you may be leaving that bike in the shop for awhile.

Jerry

I agree with Jerry...  To much history of noise equating damage.  Damage that if caught early can be minor, but if let go can quickly become catastrophic...

[Montanakid]

I agree with Jerry...  To much history of noise equating damage.  Damage that if caught early can be minor, but if let go can quickly become catastrophic...

I just looked and I'm at 23700, so I will research in the next couple days to find some Indy dealer here in the Tri-Cities area that hopefully knows what they are doing. I don't trust the local stealer. Does anyone on this forum know of a good shop in the Tri-Cities ? Iv'e seen a few but haven't heard any word good or bad on them.

[yobtaf103]

Hi, What S&S lifters are used as replacements ?

[aclass]

Hi, What S&S lifters are used as replacements ?

Lots of info in here related to that question but I replaced my stockers with the S&S H2LT at 18000 on my 09 SERG.   I'm hoping there isn't another "weak link" in the engine that will bite me sometime in the future.